[19:03] BobE Sands: so how was the turnout for the first meeting?
[19:03] Chip Poutine: the transcript is on keystone’s blog – seems like the turnout was pretty good 🙂
[19:03] Chip Poutine: both european and north american archi-types in attendence
[19:04] BobE Sands: yes,, I’ve not pulled the transcript yet.
[19:04] Chip Poutine: its a pretty interesting read
[19:04] BobE Sands: I’ll get it while we wait..
[19:05] Parker McTeague: hello 🙂
[19:05] Chip Poutine: Hi Parker!
[19:05] Threedee Shepherd: Hi all..
[19:06] Kepster Cure: hello everybody
[19:06] Threedee Shepherd: Parker, when you last met me I was Sidney. Multi-avatars
[19:06] Parker McTeague: oh, nice to see you again
[19:06] Threedee Shepherd: same here
[19:07] BobE Sands: that’s a long transcript… I’ll read it later…
[19:07] You decline !! RL Architects in SL: Archite, Architecture Island (73, 131, from A group member named Keystone Bouchard.
[19:07] Chip Poutine: hehe yup, and notecards aren’t the easiest to read…
[19:07] Parker McTeague: not at all
[19:07] You: Hi everyone!
[19:08] Parker McTeague: hi keystone!
[19:08] Kvasir Olbracht: greetings
[19:08] You: Wow, that was quite an entrance Kvasir
[19:08] BobE Sands: Hi all
[19:08] Chip Poutine: hey kvasir, arent you just the stealthy one?
[19:08] Parker McTeague: hehe
[19:08] You: is that a stealth bomber?
[19:08] Kvasir Olbracht: thanks ever so…. this is the latest in herman miller stelth seating.
[19:08] Forseti Svarog is Offline
[19:08] Chip Poutine: looks like it could be painful
[19:08] BobE Sands: LOL
[19:08] Kvasir Olbracht: only for others..
[19:08] Kvasir Olbracht: its quite…. sharp
[19:09] Chip Poutine: hehe
[19:09] Chip Poutine hums the theme from doctor zhivago….
[19:09] Kvasir Olbracht: chip… your looking mavelous dallling.
[19:09] Chip Poutine: why thankyou, i just had my eyes polished 🙂
[19:09] You: so, this is the second meeting of the same topic – the first was this morning at 10:00 AM – intended to be a European friendly meeting, hosted by Alfredo Desideri
[19:10] Kvasir Olbracht: hmmmmm you guys are doing that weird sl syncronized sitting…
[19:10] You: the transcript of which can be found here: https://archsl.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/3d-import-tool-10am-session-complete/
[19:10] Kvasir Olbracht: AND, they were very friendly europeans too..
[19:10] You: indeed they were
[19:10] You: a few Canadians snuck in…but for the most part it was good clean fun =P
[19:11] Chip Poutine: damn those canadians
[19:11] Chip Poutine shakes fist
[19:11] Chip Poutine: 😀
[19:11] Kvasir Olbracht: muahahaha
[19:11] You: so, we’re chatting up the idea of a 3D import tool…
[19:11] Kvasir Olbracht: i got into that site they recomended….. trying to find the link again… pretty cool.
[19:11] You: Chip suggested this topic, and I think it came at a very timely moment in SL’s development
[19:12] BobE Sands: yes I agree
[19:12] You: there are more and more architects, designers and engineers coming to Second LIfe every day
[19:12] BobE Sands: 😉
[19:12] BobE Sands: we will take over
[19:12] You: you can stand in this very spot on most days, at almost any time of the day, and meet a new architect or designer looking around, exploring the island
[19:12] Kvasir Olbracht: woot woot
[19:12] Parker McTeague: that’s great!
[19:13] You: and, invariably the first question RL Architects ask is ‘is there a way I can import my 3D models?’
[19:13] You: to which i have to respond – not really…. not yet…
[19:13] Threedee Shepherd: Other than prim limits, is there any theoretical reason an external “mesh” could not be translated into prims?
[19:13] You: then proceed to convince them that the in-world building tools aren’t that bad, etc.
[19:14] Kvasir Olbracht: http://www.opencroquet.org
[19:14] Kvasir Olbracht: that was it..
[19:14] BobE Sands: who has been working on the sketchup import?
[19:14] You: so, there are 3 parts of this discussion – 1.) what will it take to build a 3D import tool? is it possible? 2.) How will it effect the economy of SL? 3.) How might it change the architectural character of this virtual world of ours
[19:14] BobE Sands: soorry I’ll wait…
[19:15] Kvasir Olbracht: i have been working with the blender tool.
[19:15] You: BobE – i think your question opens the first part well – who IS working on that tool? what other tools are there? what’s working, what’s not?
[19:15] xKepster: Kepster welcome to Babbler. Have fun! Spread the love. Translation via yahoo! pipes.
[19:15] xKepster: Babbler Ready.
[19:16] Babbler: Kepster: Lingua parlate l’insieme ad italiano
[19:16] Hank Hoodoo is Offline
[19:16] Babbler: Kepster: Visiti questo Web page per aiuto
[19:16] Biscuit Carroll is Offline
[19:16] You: well, I’ve heard of a 3D import tool that allows Maya models to be imported…
[19:16] Aurelius Draken: Any artifact in SL is made of prims. A prim is, essentially, a mathematical equation. Multiple prims are multiple equations. There’s really no reason that multiple prims linked together couldn’t be optimized into a single equation, rendering it, in effect, a single prim. That alone would be a huge boon in SL, enabling us to have many many more artifacts.
[19:17] xKepster: Ascoltare DA TRADURRE sulla scanalatura /0
[19:17] Parker McTeague: and ideally have prims subtract from each other to become one entity
[19:17] Aurelius Draken: However, SL appears to be, on one level, prim-driven in terms of revenue to the Lindens. I think this will be the final barrier to optimizing prims, or bringing in a 3d artifact which was, in effect, the same thing.
[19:17] Threedee Shepherd: Is it the case that prims limits are essentially a bandwidth limit mechanism
[19:17] Parker McTeague: yes, the prim is like a unity of currency
[19:17] BobE Sands: yes, but I want tools that match my business…Sketchup,revit, max
[19:18] BobE Sands: dump them down yes..
[19:18] BobE Sands: but allow my clients to walk our buildings.
[19:19] Threedee Shepherd: this is not just an issue for architecture, any physical 3D model can have a place and use in SL
[19:19] BobE Sands: i agrre though that most programs would product too big of prims objects.
[19:19] Aurelius Draken: Old-timers have told me that the last 3 basic prims (torus, ring, and tube) are relative newcommers to SL, they weren’t always available. So the Lindens are not completely averse to increasing graphic/prim capability.
[19:19] Parker McTeague: i remember ring and tube being new 🙂
[19:20] You: also, before i forget, i’d like to take a poll of where everyone is from – if you’d rather not say, that’s fine – it just helps us plan these events
[19:20] BobE Sands: this my buiness AV 😉 I’m from virginia
[19:20] Parker McTeague: east coast u.s.
[19:20] Aurelius Draken: Here here! A fellow Virginian! 🙂
[19:20] Threedee Shepherd: Boulder Colorado and this is my business AV
[19:21] Chip Poutine: i’m from alberta – same city as kvasir 😉
[19:21] Kvasir Olbracht: upper slobovia….
[19:21] Kvasir Olbracht: we have a new president.
[19:21] Chip Poutine: me.
[19:21] BobE Sands: I’ll send mike next teim.. my real fun av…
[19:21] Kvasir Olbracht: muahahaha
[19:22] You: seems safe to say Kepster is Italian, no?
[19:22] You: i didn’t mean to derail the conversation – sorry =/
[19:22] Chip Poutine: seems like the main challenge is the differentiation between meshes and prims
[19:23] You: so, the trouble with the Maya import is that it converts meshes into many,many,many prims – which makes it impractical to use
[19:23] Kvasir Olbracht: no meshes… swe dont want people do do curved buildings.
[19:23] Kvasir Olbracht: its just not modernist
[19:23] BobE Sands: yes it is different tahn Max in that technique..
[19:23] Chip Poutine: part of the challenge of creating in sl is taking a complex form that would be fairly easily accomplished by pushing vertices around and seeing how to break that down into prims
[19:23] Threedee Shepherd: To me the issue goes beyond SL architecture itself. I want to use SL as a way to present 3D materials to clients in RL, because the SL engine is so good.
[19:23] You: can you import an avatar shape/mesh from an outside program?
[19:23] BobE Sands: I agree with Threedee
[19:24] BobE Sands: that is my goal.
[19:24] You: mine too =)
[19:24] BobE Sands: I personally like sketchup as the simpliest modeler…
[19:24] Aurelius Draken: There’s also the question of scale. What happens if you import a simple disc that translates to 50m d
[19:24] Kvasir Olbracht: POV ray or blender
[19:24] Kvasir Olbracht: muahaha
[19:24] Chip Poutine: roo reynolds had a proof of concept sketchup importer
[19:24] BobE Sands: treu prim sizes have a limite here.
[19:24] Chip Poutine: but it didn’t work on all prim types
[19:25] Threedee Shepherd: If I knew translation could be done and an idea of the programming cost, I would consider hiring someone to do it.
[19:26] BobE Sands: waht id the intire SL concept was used to creat an entireely differnt platform that could support direct imports?
[19:26] You: what I wonder is, how much of this is really being purposely limited by Linden Lab – there is a wisdom in creating a level playing field – to get this world off the ground – so that everyone has to create within the same limitations
[19:26] Parker McTeague: good point
[19:26] Chip Poutine: the democratization of content creation has created the appetite for design
[19:26] Aurelius Draken: The size limitation is arbitrarily imposed, primarily for the reason (as I understand it) of keeping people from imposing on their neighbors, presumming people are on a premium account with a 512m2 plot
[19:26] BobE Sands: I’d licens there technology and host my own sites…
[19:26] Chip Poutine: the fact that anybody can create content has also created the desire to own objects by those who do it well
[19:26] Threedee Shepherd: They would probably be willing to make money by almost any means possible 🙂
[19:27] Chip Poutine: BobE have you seen the opensim project?
[19:27] BobE Sands: change an import fee by prim 😉
[19:27] BobE Sands: same as they do textures..
[19:27] Aurelius Draken: The Lindens have approved use of the so-called ‘huge prims’ or ‘mega-prims’ on the island estates, but not the mainland
[19:27] You: Maybe Second LIfe isn’t the right platform for providing clients with a virtual tour of a design concept or a final model – even if it’s one of the only ways now –
[19:27] Threedee Shepherd: what’s opensim
[19:27] BobE Sands: no I have not Chip
[19:27] Chip Poutine: there used to be a tax on prims in the early days of SL – it caused a revolt
[19:28] BobE Sands: good..
[19:28] Chip Poutine: http://opensecondlife.org/wiki/OpenSim
[19:28] Threedee Shepherd: are you sure about the mega-prims on estates, because tha’s a real option
[19:28] Pam Renoir is Offline
[19:28] You: but you can’t stretch mega prims
[19:28] Cafmboss Vig: i wasn’t aaware there was a limit on using super-prims on mainl;and… we’ve nbeen using them for a while
[19:29] Parker McTeague: mega prims are buggy and not supported, even if they don’t explicitly delete them
[19:29] BobE Sands: thanks Chip.. I’ll read it later…
[19:29] Cafmboss Vig: correct, Key, editing them is a pain
[19:29] Catherine Omega is Online
[19:29] Aurelius Draken: I’m certain
[19:29] Chip Poutine: i’ve got geoffrey gomez’s obj import to work, but its a lot of labor
[19:30] You: you can edit mega-prims?
[19:30] Threedee Shepherd: me too on Gomez
[19:30] Cafmboss Vig: i don’t think so
[19:30] Aurelius Draken: To a limited extent, yes you can some of them. Some are… balky
[19:30] Cafmboss Vig: only as far as textures, etc
[19:30] Aurelius Draken: An architect who should be here, but is busy building at the moment :), has consulted with the Lindens on the mega-prim question. He’s using them extensively.
[19:31] Threedee Shepherd: exactly what is a mega-prim, please?
[19:31] You: but even if we could import – would it really make life easier for the creation of SL-specific content? Surely for architectural walk-throughs, it’s vital – but how would it change in-world development?
[19:31] Cafmboss Vig: they are an aberation
[19:31] Parker McTeague: a prim that breaks the 10meter limit
[19:31] Kvasir Olbracht: they are evil
[19:31] Threedee Shepherd: how?
[19:31] BobE Sands: evil architecture what a concept…
[19:32] Aurelius Draken: They work quite well for me, very stable [shrug]
[19:32] BobE Sands: how do you build one?
[19:32] Aurelius Draken: Perhaps it means I’m a wicked fellow 🙂
[19:32] Threedee Shepherd: thaks for the info given me on huge sims
[19:32] Kvasir Olbracht: perhapse..
[19:32] Aurelius Draken chuckles
[19:32] Cafmboss Vig: yes, we have used them extensively on our large facility, used for extensively cutting down prim count
[19:32] Parker McTeague: you can’t make them, you have to get copies from someone
[19:32] You: do we really want to start building in CAD? CAD is lonely
[19:32] Cafmboss Vig: anybody need a set?
[19:33] Chip Poutine: i believe the get created using libsl
[19:33] Parker McTeague: i’d like one if you have extras 🙂
[19:33] BobE Sands: cad no….
[19:33] Chip Poutine: i’ve yet to use megaprims
[19:33] BobE Sands: BIm yes…
[19:33] Kvasir Olbracht: i have tried…. i have had problems… it may have been the set that i was using.
[19:34] Johnny Ming is Offline
[19:34] BobE Sands: Key , we have derailed the conversation…
[19:34] Chip Poutine: i think that’s the main potential of SL is not necessarily to tour clients but to build collaboratively
[19:34] Threedee Shepherd: The issue came up this AM about whether it’s risky to invest in SL directed programming because Linden can change the system
[19:34] Kvasir Olbracht: this is the problem with doing anything on anything…
[19:34] Cafmboss Vig: Key, the benefit of starting w/ CAD is the amount of available stuff related to it in RL… we are very interested in pursuing FM apps here
[19:35] Kvasir Olbracht: microsoft changes their mind… your flat..
[19:35] Kvasir Olbracht: autodesk decided your virtical is of interest? blam.
[19:35] Parker McTeague: limitation in sl is you can’t keep the old version running
[19:35] Threedee Shepherd: exactly
[19:35] Chip Poutine: i think its a good discussion becuase we’re seeing where cad import would fit in among megaprims and conventional content creation…
[19:35] Kvasir Olbracht: FM in SL?
[19:35] You: so, would it be easier to bring avatars into BIMS instead of BIMS into SL?
[19:36] BobE Sands: that may be true Key
[19:36] Cafmboss Vig: Kvasir… i am confident there is a market for it
[19:36] Threedee Shepherd: Not unless one could readily adapt the SL physics engine, I suggest
[19:36] BobE Sands: Revit has easy walk throughs but still not frreform…
[19:36] Cafmboss Vig: more from an assets mgmgt standpoint
[19:36] Chip Poutine: The trick is to marry the cad and visual elements in a more compelling way
[19:36] You: why try to force-feed meshes into prims in a volatile platform when the quicker way might be to bring the avs into the BIM
[19:37] Kvasir Olbracht: so the thought is that you have a virtualized building in SL (or something) and you allow folks to do the conventional FM work on it?
[19:37] BobE Sands: not independent though like an AV currently has..
[19:37] BobE Sands: thought…
[19:37] Kvasir Olbracht: there are some pretty embedded FM applications… most of that content is report driven.
[19:37] Chip Poutine: mmm. polylines in sl…
[19:37] Cafmboss Vig: FM – more to drive managing ones area assets and objects
[19:38] BobE Sands: SL does not carry Intelligence in the objects like the BIm platforsm do.
[19:38] BobE Sands: you need that for FM apps..
[19:38] Cafmboss Vig: not true… you can add content to objects
[19:38] Chip Poutine: and have them communicate with outside databases
[19:38] Cafmboss Vig: corect
[19:38] BobE Sands: yes I agree but not parameters…
[19:38] Kvasir Olbracht: sure….. i agree.
[19:39] BobE Sands: okay may chip has the point
[19:39] Chip Poutine: libsl is intended to intercept a whole raft of stuff between client and server…
[19:39] BobE Sands: it ties to an external database.
[19:39] Cafmboss Vig: Key, you called this mtg, i think… perhaps this FM discussion would be better a dif time, so we can get back to your original topic
[19:39] You: i think its relavent
[19:39] Threedee Shepherd: I do immersive 3D-type virtual reality in RL, and I can report that there is not good software for readily manipulating avatars in a scene, so avs in BIM may be difficult to do well
[19:40] Chip Poutine: a ubiquitous cad import would certainly open up the opportunities for FM apps in SL though…
[19:40] Cafmboss Vig: i agree
[19:40] Chip Poutine: the best we’ve come to is working in cad simultaneously over a terminal server/web ex
[19:40] Chip Poutine: where ppl can take turns controlling the mouse
[19:41] Chip Poutine: certainly not visual, certainly not realtime
[19:41] Nyx Ivory is Offline
[19:41] Chip Poutine: seems like some of the game engines lend themselves to cad import like oblivion
[19:42] Multi Gadget v1.51.0: Piotrek Hienrichs
[19:43] Parker McTeague: hi piotrek
[19:43] Chip Poutine: the thing about realtime arch viz in SL is that its here now and it works, such as it is.
[19:43] Scope Cleaver is Online
[19:43] Piotrek Hienrichs: Hi everyone
[19:43] Cafmboss Vig: hi Pio
[19:43] Chip Poutine: but for many its just not worth the time investment reproducing models they’ve already created using pro level offline tools
[19:43] You: yes Chip, that’s a great point
[19:44] Kvasir Olbracht: exaclty chip
[19:44] Chip Poutine: i’ve seen a realtime 3d plugin for max
[19:44] Threedee Shepherd: the KEY point, i think
[19:44] Chip Poutine: but looked really expensive
[19:44] You: and there is a scale thing – smaller projects are not so bad in SL, but larger projects are more of a challenge (though still do-able in my opion)
[19:44] Cafmboss Vig: and Max isn’t cheap either
[19:44] Chip Poutine: and again, lacks the context of a ‘world’ and the community of avatars within
[19:44] Parker McTeague: yes, i think it’s more about redundancy than for building for sl specifically
[19:44] Kvasir Olbracht: no fuzzies either.
[19:45] Piotrek Hienrichs: how does sketchup work in SL?
[19:45] Scope Cleaver: Hi guys 🙂
[19:45] Parker McTeague: i agree keystone, 3d tools will have a much bigger impact on large builds, small builds still come up against prim limits and won’t benefit as much
[19:45] Kvasir Olbracht: SCOPE!!
[19:45] You: Scope!
[19:45] Piotrek Hienrichs: or translate to SL
[19:45] Parker McTeague: hi scope
[19:45] Chip Poutine: hiya scope!
[19:45] Threedee Shepherd: hi scope
[19:45] Kvasir Olbracht: this is just like that sitcom of the bar…
[19:45] Kvasir Olbracht: NORM!!
[19:45] Scope Cleaver: lol
[19:45] Chip Poutine: Kvasir!
[19:46] Kvasir Olbracht: not that your like that at all scope….
[19:46] Scope Cleaver: Sorry to be late, I just woke up
[19:46] Kvasir Olbracht: realy…
[19:46] Cafmboss Vig: burp… hiya scope
[19:46] dstmars Zuhrah is Online
[19:46] Scope Cleaver: Was there any improvement to the import tool since this morning? 😛
[19:46] Chip Poutine: http://eightbar.co.uk/2006/09/29/google-sketchup-second-life-export/
[19:47] Chip Poutine: its been around for a while
[19:47] Chip Poutine: yeah, scope – we’ve decided to bring avatars into cad instead of the other way around 🙂
[19:47] Chip Poutine: er, bim, sorry
[19:47] Scope Cleaver: Yea thats a very sensible point Chip
[19:47] Chip Poutine: sounds like a cleaning product to me
[19:47] Scope Cleaver: If you can’t bring the moon to the men….
[19:48] Chip Poutine: stage a moon landing in the desert hehe
[19:48] Scope Cleaver: lmao something like that
[19:48] Kvasir Olbracht: thats not such a bad idea for basic geometry chip..
[19:48] Chip Poutine: it demands the modeller to think about sketchup in terms of prims, though
[19:49] Parker McTeague: then at that point you might as well build in sl
[19:49] Chip Poutine: and sketchup has this nasty tendency to weld everything together if it isn’t separated out as components
[19:49] Kvasir Olbracht: thats true too
[19:49] Chip Poutine: exactly parker
[19:49] Chip Poutine: same with the blender tool
[19:49] You: can you import avatar meshes?
[19:49] You: maybe we just need to make our buildings out of avatars, since they’re meshes…
[19:50] BobE Sands: lol
[19:50] Chip Poutine: like in the game engine space…
[19:50] ag Sodwind is Online
[19:50] Chip Poutine: there were levels and there were models
[19:50] Chip Poutine: i wanted to make the level out of a model
[19:50] Kvasir Olbracht: turn any building into a single flat jpeg…
[19:50] Chip Poutine: it didn’t seem to like that
[19:50] You: i still think we could double our land if we all agreed to make our avs half-size, but we don’t need to get into that now! heheheh
[19:50] Parker McTeague: 🙂
[19:50] Kvasir Olbracht: i still love that idea Key!!!
[19:50] Chip Poutine: tinies, man. the only way to go.
[19:51] Kvasir Olbracht: then i could finaly fit inside this thing!!!!
[19:51] You: its all relative! our av sizes are arbitrary
[19:51] Chip Poutine: we’re all like 7 feet tall be default?
[19:51] Chip Poutine: *by
[19:51] You: its just a Linden Lab conspiracy to get us to buy all this land –
[19:51] Kvasir Olbracht: well your like that in RL too chip… so….
[19:51] Chip Poutine: hehe and just as bald
[19:52] Kvasir Olbracht: baldness is a sign of varility in many cultures..
[19:52] BobE Sands: tough crowd..
[19:52] Threedee Shepherd: Can I ask again, re: importing what is likely to be possible?
[19:52] Kvasir Olbracht: lust like riding an F117a
[19:53] Kvasir Olbracht: its totaly possible… ist being done… the problem is the limitations that prims have.
[19:53] Piotrek Hienrichs: What language are prim written in?
[19:53] Kvasir Olbracht: suckstobeyou language..
[19:53] RJ Kikuchiyo: helo all sorry for lateness
[19:54] Parker McTeague: hi rj
[19:54] Kvasir Olbracht: muahahaah…
[19:54] Kvasir Olbracht: brb…. coffie stop
[19:54] Kvasir Olbracht: hold that though.
[19:55] RJ Kikuchiyo: i thought the GL engine was a component – vectors and such
[19:55] You: I still wonder if there could be a way to build an SL-tangent world, where you can import and ‘bake’ a 3D model before avs can enter – just like the way they make games – they’ve been using 3D Studio to build games for a while now…
[19:56] Chip Poutine: which would still leave it a couple of generations behind the current game engine tech.
[19:56] Parker McTeague: removes some of the immediacy and interaction of building in sl
[19:56] You: right
[19:56] RJ Kikuchiyo: i was going to ask – is there a consensus on the import tools? ‘dont use em’?
[19:57] You: there aren’t any fluid and automatic import tools RJ
[19:57] Chip Poutine: the consensus is that there doesn’t seem to be an efficient way to do it versus just modeling in sl
[19:57] Chip Poutine: but part of this discussion is to think about if and when there *might be* one.
[19:57] RJ Kikuchiyo: ok – that wuz my thinkin
[19:57] Chip Poutine: what the implications would be
[19:57] Kvasir Olbracht: back.. sorry
[19:57] Cafmboss Vig: plus, all rl tools don’t care about number of things… whereas sl cares about prims, so efficiency tool would be best way to go
[19:58] Aurelius Draken: At some point, the Lindens need to be involved in the discussion.
[19:58] Chip Poutine: right
[19:58] RJ Kikuchiyo: a boolean would be an excellent place to start being compatible with those other programs
[19:58] Chip Poutine: i think model import woudn’t usurp in-world creations
[19:58] You: I think the Lindens are accutely aware of this situation
[19:58] Chip Poutine: the numbers bear that out
[19:58] You: true Chip
[19:58] RJ Kikuchiyo: *boolean option
[19:59] Chip Poutine: activeworlds isn’t as successful from what i know of it because it lacks in world content creation – mesh import is the only mechanism
[19:59] Aurelius Draken: It’s all well and good for us to discuss this, but ‘they are the gatekeepers, they hold all the keys’
[19:59] Cafmboss Vig: yeah, but LL has some bigger issues to deal with like performance and keeping their hw alive
[19:59] You: not entirely Aurelius
[19:59] You: to a certain degree they do, but the scripts that have been deeveloped so far are indie scripters
[20:00] Seifert Surface is Online
[20:00] Chip Poutine: we’ve already seen several examples of initiatives to move data from diff’t packages – blender, maya, sketchup, etc – exactly, ppl who have figured out how to translate the language of meshes into the language of prims
[20:00] Chip Poutine: which if you throw your client into wireframe or export back to opengl are just mesh surfaces at the client level
[20:01] Chip Poutine: prims are an intermediary
[20:01] Chip Poutine: a way of thinking about geometry
[20:01] Parker McTeague: and a way to send data to the client
[20:01] Piotrek Hienrichs: Since Autodesk is here in SL and Google has bought Sketchup is there movement from those parties to do export tools?
[20:01] BobE Sands: not hta I have heard
[20:02] Chip Poutine: its all been independent
[20:02] Chip Poutine: but autodesk has featured one of the indies on their island
[20:02] BobE Sands: Yes Autodesk has been active…
[20:02] Piotrek Hienrichs: It would seam to me that if LL wont do it these others should be approached
[20:02] Aurelius Draken: Very interesting
[20:03] Cafmboss Vig: yeah, but so many little things from autodesk over its history were indie developments… i.e MAC port of Autocad
[20:03] Chip Poutine: seems the lack of activity on Autodesk’s part almost suggests they’re ready to do an endrun on all of this and just come up with their own tool.
[20:03] You: Autodesk is looking at SL carefully – they’ve had an island since last November, and are working on tools – but they’re still researching – again, the prim limits play a huge part, so in some ways, there’s only so much they can do – but there is still room for helpful tools.
[20:03] Chip Poutine: autocad on mac 😛
[20:03] RJ Kikuchiyo: eems like the code was based on some prior iteration – is it possible to get from a linden the historic perspective and reverse-engineer this hypothetical bridge?
[20:03] Chip Poutine: too bad they just gave up on it.
[20:03] BobE Sands: Revit will run on a MAC
[20:04] Kvasir Olbracht: i dont understand why autodesk would do anyting for SL…. they have the juice to do their own SL….
[20:04] Piotrek Hienrichs: Autodesk is infamous for buying what works
[20:04] Cafmboss Vig: AutoCAD 11 was ported to MAC over a weekend
[20:04] Chip Poutine: but they don’t have the mindshare kvasir
[20:04] Cafmboss Vig: way back then
[20:04] You: If anyone wants to see Autodesk Island, I’ll invite you to the group and give a Landmark – its still closed to the public for now
[20:04] Chip Poutine: they’d tried to do cyberspace before and failed
[20:04] Kvasir Olbracht: historicalyl autodesk tends to move towards proprietory things that rich architects pay for
[20:04] Piotrek Hienrichs: True
[20:04] BobE Sands: ha…
[20:04] BobE Sands: treu
[20:04] BobE Sands: I pay them LOTS of $
[20:05] Kvasir Olbracht: they are just feeling SL up..
[20:05] BobE Sands: I bet they will buy it.
[20:05] Cafmboss Vig: possible
[20:05] Cafmboss Vig: but then will it grow?
[20:05] RJ Kikuchiyo: LL has been positioning for a buyout for some time
[20:05] Chip Poutine: too many flying penises for that X)
[20:05] Piotrek Hienrichs: If autodesk likes it it may be a part of Buzzsaw soon
[20:05] Cafmboss Vig: haha
[20:05] BobE Sands: please not buzzsaw…
[20:06] Kvasir Olbracht: muahaha…
[20:06] RJ Kikuchiyo accepted your inventory offer.
[20:06] BobE Sands: it will cost us too much…
[20:06] Kvasir Olbracht: buzzsaw uber alis
[20:06] Cafmboss Vig: need a prim viewer then
[20:06] Piotrek Hienrichs: not my choice either
[20:06] Chip Poutine: all of autodesks internet collaboration efforts seem to have failed on one level or another
[20:06] Threedee Shepherd: SL MUST eventually be bought out (or fail) because that’s the way Venture Capitalists get their money back!
[20:06] Kvasir Olbracht: they will say here for a subscription fee of 2500 per year, with usage fees, you can bring all your buildings into a virtualized environment.
[20:06] BobE Sands: Autodesk’s DWF format would actually be a great thing to import if we could figure out how..
[20:06] Chip Poutine: architectural studio was supposed to be this amazing shared drawing board – it flopped
[20:07] Kvasir Olbracht: stairs still wont work,, but they will have a new version so soon.
[20:07] Cafmboss Vig: Arch studio was a great product, but poorly marketed
[20:07] You: Clear ink built a 2D DWF import tool
[20:07] Kvasir Olbracht: pay up kids… but make sure you bend over while you sign the checks…
[20:07] You: for Autodesk
[20:07] RJ Kikuchiyo: DWF is old timey – independent development lines
[20:07] Piotrek Hienrichs: By the way if anyone cares – Tennessee is beating Ohio state by 17 at the half
[20:07] BobE Sands: DWF is quite goo now…
[20:08] BobE Sands: you should see it…
[20:08] RJ Kikuchiyo: good but based in the historic no?
[20:08] Piotrek Hienrichs: DWf may be a good interim option if it will work
[20:08] BobE Sands: we use it all the time in lieu of PDFs
[20:08] BobE Sands: it carries more intellegence…
[20:08] Kvasir Olbracht: on a 10m prim
[20:08] Cafmboss Vig: yes, but dwf is still vector format
[20:08] You: it also updates dynamically – using Autodesk’s Freewheel
[20:08] You: DWF on a prim
[20:08] Kvasir Olbracht: oh no… dont get me started on intelligence.
[20:09] Kvasir Olbracht: ahahahahaha
[20:09] BobE Sands: true but it might be a place to start..
[20:09] Chip Poutine: hehe – i read the transcript from this morning kvasir 😉
[20:09] Piotrek Hienrichs: Would Autocadd solid models work better?
[20:09] Kvasir Olbracht: breathing deeply..
[20:09] You have offered friendship to RJ Kikuchiyo
[20:09] Cafmboss Vig: yes, solids would be better, more prim like, except for Bolean operations
[20:09] Chip Poutine: there’s also imports based on swf and powerpoint of all things in the works
[20:10] BobE Sands: I don’t use them for much of anything…
[20:10] Chip Poutine: sorry, svg
[20:10] Chip Poutine: not swf
[20:10] RJ Kikuchiyo: the first thing I asked myself in game was ‘where are the booleans’?
[20:10] BobE Sands: sorry guys.. got to go…
[20:10] BobE Sands: I’ll read the rest…
[20:10] Parker McTeague: take care bobe
[20:10] Cafmboss Vig: haha, me too rj
[20:10] Chip Poutine: nice chatting BobE
[20:11] You: Seeya BobE
[20:11] Aurelius Draken: Take it easy BobE
[20:11] Cafmboss Vig: sorry, all, i have another appt, thanks for the chat, very informative
[20:11] You: your stealth chair is moving Kvasir….is it a ‘smart’ chair?
[20:11] Kvasir Olbracht: yes…. it is intelligent too..
[20:12] Kvasir Olbracht: smart and intelligent..
[20:12] Kvasir Olbracht: just like autocad..
[20:12] Kvasir Olbracht: and many Interior designers..
[20:12] Aurelius Draken: I wish you well, Vig
[20:13] You: uh oh….i think i froze up
[20:13] Kvasir Olbracht: oh my…. i hope i didnt insult some interior designers..
[20:13] Kvasir Olbracht: engineers then.
[20:13] Kvasir Olbracht: 😉
[20:14] You: so, it seems this conversation is wrapping up? anyone else have any thoughts about 3D imports? or lack thereof…
[20:15] Chip Poutine: seems like we’re headed for the makers of pro level tools developing their own realtime solutions
[20:15] Threedee Shepherd: I’m willing to pay more than L$ if that would make them happen.
[20:15] You: one way or another, I think virtual spaces is going to transform architecture in a huge way – no matter how the convergence goes down – its going to have a huge impact on the way we work
[20:15] RJ Kikuchiyo: if I could say that the simplest tools in 3D before had leaps and bounds ahead of SL client
[20:15] Chip Poutine: here in sl the built in tools might just prevail because of raw numbers and the limitations in terms of size/number of prims
[20:16] Piotrek Hienrichs: I think the conversion tools will be necessary to make it worthwhile to produce in both worlds
[20:16] Chip Poutine: raw number of people with access/knowledge of cad tools
[20:16] Chip Poutine: i’m still happy to bring clients here and built together
[20:16] You: agreed Chip
[20:16] Chip Poutine: realism isn’t always the goal
[20:16] Chip Poutine: of course.
[20:17] Threedee Shepherd: An aside, have you ever noticed that SL stars in the sky don’t move?
[20:17] Kvasir Olbracht: muahahaha
[20:17] Chip Poutine: but you can move the sun with your mouse!
[20:18] You have offered friendship to Aurelius Draken
[20:18] Kvasir Olbracht: there are just so many wonderous things.
[20:18] RJ Kikuchiyo: realism wasnt the goal when the game engine was adapted for content creation
[20:19] Piotrek Hienrichs: realism doesn’t need to be the goal, just an option
[20:19] Chip Poutine: but realism also seems to be the expectation when one is given a chance to explore in ‘real’ time…
[20:19] RJ Kikuchiyo: this is coming from me who doesnt do anything but real in SL… kinda weird
[20:19] Chip Poutine: its why sketchup models are so popular
[20:19] Chip Poutine: fast to produce
[20:19] Chip Poutine: loos
[20:19] Chip Poutine: loose
[20:19] Chip Poutine: more open to possibilities
[20:20] Chip Poutine: and fun to navigate via the tabs
[20:20] Piotrek Hienrichs: The possibilities for unreal inspire the real
[20:20] Chip Poutine: the walk mode in sketchup sucks.
[20:20] RJ Kikuchiyo: has there been a raytrace application that didnt come with a burden – this is the thinking I come to when I ask ‘why didnt LL do…”
[20:20] You: what about export tools? Chip, you’ve explored that?
[20:20] Chip Poutine: yes
[20:20] Chip Poutine: i’ve used glintercept to take models out of sl into .obj format which i then import in formz
[20:21] Parker McTeague: i’m heading off, thanks for the discussion!
[20:21] saraeliza Maine: By the way I wasn’t offended from before 🙂 Just had stepped away…
[20:21] Chip Poutine: or could be imported into any other prog
[20:21] Chip Poutine: ‘nite parker
[20:21] You: good night Parker! Thanks for coming =)
[20:21] Parker McTeague: good night!
[20:21] Piotrek Hienrichs: bye parker
[20:21] Threedee Shepherd: nite parker
[20:21] RJ Kikuchiyo: chip:
[20:21] RJ Kikuchiyo: whas there a trend in the exported models?
[20:22] RJ Kikuchiyo: as in did they adhere to a simplicity
[20:22] You: so, I’ve talked to quite a few architects who are starting to prefer doing schematic design in SL – because they can collaborate, and get feedback from peers/clients virtually –
[20:22] You: there might be something to that
[20:22] Chip Poutine: the exported models are a triangulated mess
[20:23] saraeliza Maine: I would love to learn how to do that… that is why I’ve been coming to these meetings.
[20:23] Aurelius Draken: SL lends itself well to that, but the stylistic side has to be clearly communicated
[20:23] Chip Poutine: probably not unlike a max model
[20:23] Kvasir Olbracht: well kids… i have to be off…. there must be some greeving to do…
[20:23] Kvasir Olbracht: nice to see you all again….
[20:23] Scope Cleaver: Take care 🙂
[20:23] Threedee Shepherd: nite
[20:23] Chip Poutine: ‘nite kvasir
[20:23] saraeliza Maine: Can someone save this chat for us again?
[20:23] Aurelius Draken: G’nite, Kvasir
[20:24] Threedee Shepherd: nite
[20:24] Kvasir Olbracht: nite all
[20:24] You: good night!
[20:24] RJ Kikuchiyo: id love a transcript of what I missed
[20:25] RJ Kikuchiyo: Inworld developments: mirrors in firstlook? was it only just me who missed that?
[20:26] You: ? i missed that too
[20:26] saraeliza Maine: No, I missed it too… would love a transcript. 🙂
[20:26] You: i’ll post it to the blog
[20:26] You: http://www.archsl.wordpress.com
[20:26] RJ Kikuchiyo: tx Keystone
[20:26] saraeliza Maine: Thanks so much
[20:26] Chip Poutine: there was a mirror rj
[20:26] Threedee Shepherd: thanks
[20:26] Chip Poutine: a little off, though
[20:26] You: this morning’s transcript is there too
[20:26] RJ Kikuchiyo: i heard it was out for ONLY one revision then pulled
[20:27] Chip Poutine: the reflection map was very chunky and distorted
[20:27] RJ Kikuchiyo: i can imagine the load
[20:27] RJ Kikuchiyo: if it was at all server side
[20:27] Chip Poutine: i don’t recall – there were a few blog posts about it…
[20:28] Scope Cleaver: Which one of you are using first look on daily basis?
[20:28] RJ Kikuchiyo: on point with the earlier thread – i think LL has lost in development what it has gained in stability management
[20:29] Threedee Shepherd: If I am using SL as a delivery tool in RL, stability MATTERS
[20:30] RJ Kikuchiyo: i was being slightly sarcastic about that stability – its a bigger job than ever – do you think it has eclipsed the development? different teams?
[20:30] Piotrek Hienrichs: If you are using SL in RL thus the NEED for a conversion tool
[20:31] RJ Kikuchiyo: poitrek and threedee: both well taken points: do you use them as such now? SL tools as RL platform?
[20:32] Threedee Shepherd: I’m starting to develop the idea, in conjunction with true, immersive 3d.
[20:32] Piotrek Hienrichs: Not yet – just experimenting in SL
[20:32] Piotrek Hienrichs: I fht econversion was easy I would without a doubt
[20:33] You: there are about 6 architects using SL as a professional tool now – to the best of my knowledge
[20:34] You: some prefer to be anonymous though =/
[20:34] RJ Kikuchiyo: Keystone – does that mean that autodesk has a ‘use at your own risk’ statement in TOS? or EULA?
[20:34] Chip Poutine: some seem to prefer the idea of a private label experience
[20:34] saraeliza Maine: How are the clients responding to the walk throughs in SL?
[20:34] You: for all of our frustration with the in-world building tools, the value of a virtual model of a RL design is tremendous – unprecedented – totally changes the game
[20:35] Chip Poutine: i just talked to a reporter about that very thing this afternoon – it blew her mind.
[20:35] Chip Poutine has been given his two minute warning by the better half
[20:35] You: the architects find their way here on their own – it isn’t any kind of offial Autodesk program or anything
[20:35] saraeliza Maine: I haven’t learned how to build with SL tools yet… I was hoping that we could import Sketchup, CAd models soon.
[20:36] Chip Poutine: its pretty easy, sara 🙂
[20:36] saraeliza Maine: SL has been listed in many magazines… it has been advertised quite a bit for designers.
[20:36] saraeliza Maine: I should just go ahead and try it then.
[20:36] You: clients are blown away by the virtual tours – invariably – the coolness factor, and the fact that they can use the model to test paint colors, material types/finishes – landscaping – furniture layouts – etc. – tends to excite them
[20:36] Chip Poutine: i’d jump right in 🙂
[20:36] Piotrek Hienrichs: I originally heard about SL on one of the morning shows
[20:36] Chip Poutine: that’s how we all did it
[20:37] Chip Poutine: but there’s always more to learn 😉
[20:37] Chip Poutine: well i need to head out – thanks for the insights everyone
[20:37] Threedee Shepherd: I have a need to demo the real Globe Theater in SL. It exists in 3D format on the Web. I would like NOT to have to rebuild it for SL.
[20:37] Chip Poutine: its great to meet with all of you!
[20:37] RJ Kikuchiyo: thanks chip – gnite
[20:37] saraeliza Maine: Thanks! 🙂
[20:37] Piotrek Hienrichs: nite chip
[20:37] Threedee Shepherd: thanks for your insights
[20:37] Scope Cleaver: Later Chip
[20:37] You: what better way to show a design concept to a client than to spend a few hours building a study model in SL then inviting them in… “lets sit down in the living room and see what the view might be like…”
[20:37] You: later Chip!
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