The ARCH


3D Imports: RL Architects Meeting 2007-3-22 10:00 AM session

[9:54]  You: hi
[9:54]  saraeliza Maine: Hello
[9:55]  Belmeloro DiPrima: hello
[9:55]  You: wait about 5 min please
[9:57]  Cezary Fish: Bel – you build that embassy?
[9:58]  Belmeloro DiPrima: hi,
[9:58]  Belmeloro DiPrima: yes
[9:58]  Belmeloro DiPrima: though not me exactly
[9:58]  Cezary Fish: might I have a look later?
[9:58]  Belmeloro DiPrima: I’m nanaging the project
[9:58]  Belmeloro DiPrima: Nothing to see yet.
[9:58]  Cezary Fish: 🙂
[9:58]  Belmeloro DiPrima: Plans should be ready in two weeks
[9:58]  Cezary Fish: cool
[9:59]  Belmeloro DiPrima: the whole thing ready by late may
[9:59]  Architect Raymaker: Hello everybody
[9:59]  Belmeloro DiPrima: hello
[9:59]  Cezary Fish: hi
[9:59]  You: hello
[9:59]  saraeliza Maine: Helo
[9:59]  Architect Raymaker: which chair ?-)
[10:00]  Belmeloro DiPrima: too much choice:-)
[10:00]  You: eheh
[10:00]  Architect Raymaker: Its good whith choice
[10:01]  You: now, we can start the chat, I think
[10:01]  Belmeloro DiPrima: cool
[10:01]  Architect Raymaker: Great
[10:02]  You: have some of you any notice that Linden could admit .dxf or .dwg upload files?
[10:02]  saraeliza Maine: I was wondering how this could be done
[10:02]  Belmeloro DiPrima: not me
[10:02]  Architect Raymaker: no seen it
[10:02]  Cezary Fish: My group has an import tool ready and working 🙂
[10:03]  Belmeloro DiPrima: I can see one difficulty, which is how to translate external 3D files into low-prim SL files
[10:03]  You: Lee Pau said to me
[10:03]  Belmeloro DiPrima: oh cool
[10:03]  Architect Raymaker: impressed
[10:03]  Cezary Fish: but I have to tell you one thing…..
[10:03]  Cezary Fish: there is nothing like building in SL 🙂
[10:03]  Architect Raymaker: !-)
[10:03]  saraeliza Maine: I have heard that the scale is off when building in SL
[10:04]  Cezary Fish: Imports are not a problem
[10:04]  Cezary Fish: Ideas are 🙂
[10:04]  saraeliza Maine: How can we import?
[10:04]  Kvasir Olbracht: why am i not seeing anyone?
[10:04]  Cezary Fish: Sar – no idea. I only know how I can 🙂
[10:05]  Cezary Fish: THe top guarded secret of a group :)))
[10:05]  Architect Raymaker: fine here too
[10:05]  saraeliza Maine: How do you import?
[10:05]  Kvasir Olbracht: can anyonw see me? maybe i need to relog..
[10:05]  Belmeloro DiPrima: I can see ou
[10:05]  You: we see you
[10:05]  Architect Raymaker: I can c u
[10:05]  Kvasir Olbracht: hmmmmmm….
[10:05]  Kvasir Olbracht: im going to relog.
[10:05]  saraeliza Maine: I have heard of Autodesk island, and some people exist with the Autodesk name
[10:05]  Cezary Fish: But, Sar, as I mentioned before
[10:05]  Cezary Fish: import is not an issue
[10:06]  Cezary Fish: the most important things happen IN-WORLD
[10:06]  saraeliza Maine: What do you mean exactly?
[10:06]  Architect Raymaker: I have plenty of ideas
[10:06]  Cezary Fish: Import does not solve any problem
[10:06]  Cezary Fish: you have to build it anyway….
[10:06]  Belmeloro DiPrima: It might save time?
[10:06]  Cezary Fish: and given the limitations..
[10:06]  Cezary Fish: its not worth it
[10:07]  Cezary Fish: twice as much work with the same effect
[10:07]  You: which kind of files do you import, Cezary?
[10:07]  Scope Cleaver: Greetings 🙂
[10:07]  Kvasir Olbracht: phew…. thats better… i found out the problem…
[10:07]  Architect Raymaker: Hi Scope
[10:07]  Kvasir Olbracht: SCOPE!!!
[10:07]  Cezary Fish: we can import practically any file, but the problem is the file has to be prepared in a very special way…..
[10:07]  Scope Cleaver: Hello 🙂
[10:07]  Kvasir Olbracht: i had my EU filters on….
[10:07]  Cezary Fish: we can not simply take a redy made file…..
[10:07]  Scope Cleaver: I thought it said on Clear Ink Island I had to bug Kiwi
[10:08]  Cezary Fish: It would end up
Cezary Fish: we can not simply take a redy made file…..
[10:07]  Scope Cleaver: I thought it said on Clear Ink Island I had to bug Kiwi
[10:08]  Cezary Fish: It would end up in a total mess 🙂
[10:08]  Cezary Fish: Files have to be prepared, designed, specially for SL
[10:08]  Cezary Fish: and this is the limitation that makes import worthless – SL LIMITS!
[10:08]  Architect Raymaker: I use BiM software in RL -even the door handles are are modelled
[10:08]  You: do you create the files with commercial tools, Cesary?
[10:09]  Belmeloro DiPrima: so the conversion process is not trivial – as I suspected, the decision engine for generating low prim versions has got to be complicated, mathematically
[10:09]  Cezary Fish: Not all can be converted as you said…
[10:09]  Rexor Alviso is Online
[10:09]  Cezary Fish: so this is not as simple as to take just any file made by anyone ….
[10:09]  saraeliza Maine: What is Autodesk island? Are they not creating something that would make it easier for us to use CAD?
[10:10]  Architect Raymaker is Online
[10:10]  Keoki Marama is Online
[10:10]  Kvasir Olbracht is Online
[10:10]  Cezary Fish: It is like trying to import smells here, not yet available 🙂
[10:10]  Scope Cleaver: *laughs*
[10:10]  Kvasir Olbracht: Firstly, Autodesk never has made anyting about CAD easyer..
[10:10]  Kvasir Olbracht: ahahaha
[10:11]  You: good
[10:11]  Architect Raymaker: It would be appealing to use software already known- but the low pol issue sounds like the biggest prob
[10:11]  IM: Keoki Marama: Yes, Profile browsing, I notice your Paladian building I just HAVE to visit, as well as list in the “Great Buildings” list we have at the VAA !
[10:11]  Belmeloro DiPrima: Didn’t stop Calvin Klein from launching theyr new prerfume yesterday in SL;-)
[10:11]  Kvasir Olbracht: they just describe it vigorously.
[10:11]  Kvasir Olbracht: mabye thats what we need to do.
[10:11]  Cezary Fish: The tool we have is just to import our offline work, only this 🙂
[10:12]  Architect Raymaker: Is it possible make an SL build off line ?
[10:12]  Cezary Fish: sure
[10:12]  Architect Raymaker: How
[10:12]  You: I understand that you wrote the tool
[10:12]  Lee Pau is Offline
[10:13]  Architect Raymaker: Ahh ! the Gadget ?
[10:13]  Cezary Fish: Yes, we have a tool for imports, but it is still in a phase of testing…. works fine, but requires a lot more work than building here :)))
[10:13]  Keoki Marama: Obviously we cannot just take DWG files in Cezary, but having that tool – to scale – gives us the ability to pre-process the file (possibly quasi-automatically) into something that WILL work well in SL
[10:14]  Scope Cleaver: Yea thats a good point actually
[10:14]  Kvasir Olbracht: so this tool imports geometry, or only images?
[10:14]  Cezary Fish: imports objects 🙂
[10:14]  Scope Cleaver: Recently I was giving the inworld tool another shot and found out it does great things but it’s slower than just using the standard tools
[10:14]  You: Cezary can you import revolution solids?
[10:14]  Cezary Fish: Scope is absolutely right….
[10:15]  Scope Cleaver: So having it working is one thing, making sure it’s more efficient than doing it from scratch here would be nice 🙂
[10:15]  You: or 3d meshes?
[10:15]  Cezary Fish: very noble….
[10:15]  Cezary Fish: It is like the search for holy grail…..
[10:15]  Cezary Fish: and time consuming 🙂
[10:15]  Belmeloro DiPrima: very funny too:-)
[10:15]  Keoki Marama: For instance – a BIM program could add an option that, so-to-speak, took a kind of photo-snapshot of our finished CADD BIM model and texturemapped it automatically to simple prims, similar to how the MOK3 software works
[10:15]  Kvasir Olbracht: dont most of those import tools use scripts to generate geometry? is that what yours does..
[10:15]  Kvasir Olbracht: i have used the blender converter..
[10:15]  Cezary Fish: yes Kvasir, more or less….
[10:16]  Trevor Steptoe: I think the main problem with tools like that is that it just takes one update and they break, so to depend on them you need a solid developer or two committed to keeping it up to date.
[10:16]  Kvasir Olbracht: so.. the real limitation is that SL prims are realy primative….
[10:16]  Cezary Fish: Kvasir – absolutely to the point 🙂
[10:16]  Kvasir Olbracht: in blender, you can only use objects which work out to function the same way as prims in world..
[10:17]  You: and to make a complex object you need to join too much prims
[10:17]  Cezary Fish: So, as I mentioned many times before, building IN SL is the most sophisticated form of building known to me HERE 🙂
[10:17]  Kvasir Olbracht: i did a test project using blender, and although some of the navigation was faster, i didntfind it to be much faster than using skids for example… and a slicing tool i have.
[10:17]  Scope Cleaver: So the interesting question is whether there is a mathematically straightforward way to convert meshes to SL prims, thats a soluble problem or interpretation is involved?
[10:17]  Trevor Steptoe: This is a deep flaw in much of the hype around Web 2.0, that loosely coupled services need constant work to reconnect them.
[10:18]  Kvasir Olbracht: there isnt… sl prims are based on 3 point surfaces….
[10:19]  Scope Cleaver: So it’s not as easy as it look specially if you do optimisation like prim cut’s etc
[10:19]  Kvasir Olbracht: easy scope?
[10:19]  Kvasir Olbracht: muahaha
[10:19]  Scope Cleaver: Not easy I said 🙂
[10:19]  Kvasir Olbracht: not as easy as it looks? grin…
[10:20]  Kvasir Olbracht: does it look easy.
[10:20]  Kvasir Olbracht: AHAHAHA
[10:20]  Scope Cleaver: Well to some
Scope Cleaver: Well to some it does hehe
[10:20]  Architect Raymaker: Well I guess the import- makes sense if not starting from scratch
[10:20]  Kvasir Olbracht: the think i like about it all is that it forces people to adopt modernist principles…
[10:20]  Scope Cleaver: *nods furiously*
[10:20]  Architect Raymaker: explain
[10:20]  Kvasir Olbracht: none of this crazy frank gerry stuff.
[10:21]  Belmeloro DiPrima: lots of bauhaus:-)
[10:21]  Scope Cleaver: omg it’s so funny you’d say that
[10:21]  Architect Raymaker: ahh lol
[10:21]  Kvasir Olbracht: im makeing a tee shirt that says Squairs no circles.
[10:21]  Cezary Fish: I have seen some things imported here by “some” developers. BORE! 🙂
[10:21]  cory Mastroianni is Online
[10:21]  Architect Raymaker: I happen to like Nurbs LOL
[10:21]  Scope Cleaver: I actually like the SL tools
[10:22]  Cezary Fish: Me 2
[10:22]  Kvasir Olbracht: well… muhahaha….
[10:22]  Esmayeeli Delphin: hello all
[10:22]  saraeliza Maine: is it hard to learn to buildin Sl?
[10:22]  saraeliza Maine: I am worried about the scale
[10:22]  Scope Cleaver: I’d be in heaven if they were working as they should.
[10:22]  Architect Raymaker: -my soffware – is strictly orthagonal
[10:22]  Kvasir Olbracht: dont worry… be happy
[10:22]  Cezary Fish: 🙂
[10:22]  Kvasir Olbracht: scale isnt a problem, becuase no one can measure anything
[10:22]  You: the difficult for me using SL tools is the position of my avatar
[10:22]  Scope Cleaver: You need a set of huge prims saraeliza?
[10:23]  Kvasir Olbracht: its the whole heisenburg thing..
[10:23]  Scope Cleaver: Uncertainty?
[10:23]  Scope Cleaver: *grin*
[10:23]  saraeliza Maine: I’ve never tried to build in SL… I use Sketchup, Maya, 3DS Max, VIZ, And CAD in RL
[10:23]  Kvasir Olbracht: 😉
[10:23]  Kiwifr00t Krasker is Offline
[10:23]  Kvasir Olbracht: woot for sketchup
[10:23]  saraeliza Maine: I wish I could just import what I already use
[10:23]  saraeliza Maine: I LOVE sketchup
[10:24]  Cezary Fish: practice makes perfect
[10:24]  saraeliza Maine is Online
[10:24]  saraeliza Maine: I use it to show clients what their rooms could look like… paint, furnishing, etc.
[10:24]  Kvasir Olbracht: im using sketchup to work out preliminary models, then sliceing them for SL
[10:24]  You: I work with Architectural Desktop
[10:24]  Kvasir Olbracht: scale in them by 1.3
[10:24]  saraeliza Maine: What do you mean by slicing?
[10:24]  Scope Cleaver: Kvasir given the mostruously hard task of doing what you are doing, are you in the other hand making sure SL will keep its prim architecture for long enough to make your effort worthwhile?
[10:24]  Architect Raymaker: Sketch Up Is a mini revolution
[10:24]  Kvasir Olbracht: its just like dante says…
[10:25]  Kvasir Olbracht: abandon all hope yea who enter here..
[10:25]  Scope Cleaver: Whats the crux of the challenge technically?
[10:25]  Kvasir Olbracht: i think that the whole SL thing will be a moving target for the next several year…
[10:25]  Scope Cleaver: That wakes you up in sweat?
[10:25]  Kvasir Olbracht: on the geometry side….
[10:25]  Kvasir Olbracht: most of my projects will be 8 months…..
[10:26]  Kvasir Olbracht: so…. as they change the technology the approach as to be updated..
[10:26]  Architect Raymaker: Can you download your models ?
[10:26]  Cezary Fish: it takes 12 months for an elephant….
[10:26]  Scope Cleaver: Hello there Esmayeeli
[10:26]  Kvasir Olbracht: had to be..
[10:26]  Kvasir Olbracht: through slices….
[10:26]  Kvasir Olbracht: i take sketchup… section the model…
[10:26]  saraeliza Maine: What are slices exactly?
[10:26]  saraeliza Maine: Oh, I see what you mean…
[10:26]  Kvasir Olbracht: and use a tool im developeing called the slice o matic…
[10:26]  Kvasir Olbracht: to line them up.
[10:26]  Kvasir Olbracht: and set scale.
[10:27]  Keystone Bouchard: don’t mean to break the thread – but I’d like to take a quick tally – where is everyone from? (please only answer if you feel comfortable sharing..it you’d rather not say, no worries!)
[10:27]  Architect Raymaker: Hi keystone
[10:27]  saraeliza Maine: Chicago
[10:27]  Kvasir Olbracht: then you just knock yourself out with prim city…
[10:27]  Trevor Steptoe: Seattle, WA, USA
[10:27]  Cezary Fish: Poznan, Poland
[10:27]  Belmeloro DiPrima: Stockholm/Cairo
[10:27]  Architect Raymaker: Copenhagen
[10:27]  Kvasir Olbracht: calgary alberta….. home of the Flames woot woot..
[10:27]  You: Venezia
[10:27]  Kvasir Olbracht: team canada uber alis..
[10:27]  Keystone Bouchard: Berkeley, CA here
[10:28]  Keystone Bouchard: ok – thanks! please continue – sorry to interrupt
[10:28]  Scope Cleaver: Good turn out
[10:28]  Keystone Bouchard: this info helps us plan these events
[10:28]  Keoki Marama: Boston
[10:29]  Trevor Steptoe: Out of curiosity, is anyone working in virtual worlds other than Second Life?
[10:29]  Cezary Fish: are there any ? 🙂
[10:29]  Kvasir Olbracht: entropic universe..
[10:29]  You: no
[10:29]  saraeliza Maine: No
[10:29]  Keoki Marama: no
[10:29]  Trevor Steptoe: There.com, for example.
[10:29]  Scope Cleaver: Pretty much exclusively SL here
[10:29]  Keystone Bouchard: or, Ogoglio? =P
[10:30]  Cezary Fish: there com is a toy story compared to SL, just a private opinion .
[10:30]  Trevor Steptoe: I’ll try to keep the shameless self promotion to a low roar, Keystone. 😉
[10:30]  Scope Cleaver is Online
[10:30]  Keystone Bouchard: hahah
[10:30]  Trevor Steptoe: No, actually I was just wondering if anyone had any cross-world tools they found useful.
[10:30]  Esmayeeli Delphin: sorry that i interupt
[10:31]  Esmayeeli Delphin: anyone used the blender tools
[10:31]  Architect Raymaker: I think Sketch up was mention also
[10:31]  Trevor Steptoe: I think the virtual world space is exanding (Area, Kaneva, …) and it seems like a shame to recreate the same works in each.
[10:31]  Architect Raymaker: I agree
[10:31]  Cezary Fish: I think what you try to do here is importing parts of your old BMW to your new Cadillac. But why not simply drive Cadillac and enjoy it?
[10:32]  Kvasir Olbracht: entropia univers is an aswome system greaphically…
[10:32]  Belmeloro DiPrima: looks like all these virtual worlds are still at the bulletin board phase from 1990 before the web and a common protocol
[10:32]  Kvasir Olbracht: but its too much like a game to get anything done.
[10:32]  Trevor Steptoe: I hear you, Cezary. Each space has its essential style which needs attention.
[10:32]  Kvasir Olbracht: .hunting gathering… etc… for materials.
[10:32]  Kvasir Olbracht: SL challenges will be to keep up with rich graphics showing up in some of these alternative systems.
[10:32]  You have offered friendship to Harry Anatine
[10:32]  Architect Raymaker: and time
[10:32]  Scope Cleaver: Which are the ones that have content creation as flexible as SL?
[10:33]  Architect Raymaker: Hi scooter
[10:33]  Kvasir Olbracht: entropia is certainly as flexable i think.. with better geometry support
[10:33]  Scope Cleaver: Interesting
Scope Cleaver: How many residents they have roughly?
[10:33]  Kvasir Olbracht: but you have to be ‘playing the game’ to do anything
[10:33]  Kvasir Olbracht: its quite small at the moment…
[10:33]  Kvasir Olbracht: under 500k
[10:33]  Cezary Fish: I think this is all a matter of taste, Entropia looked like lego world for me 🙂
[10:33]  Belmeloro DiPrima: 500,000 I think
[10:34]  Trevor Steptoe: Qwaq (which is Open Croquet underneath) is darn flexible, if a little hard to use.
[10:34]  Scooter Gaudio: I’m here for the meeting, where is everyone?
[10:34]  Kvasir Olbracht: WOW is also awsome….
[10:34]  saraeliza Maine: Has anyone been to Autodesk Island?
[10:34]  Kvasir Olbracht: 8million residents
[10:34]  Kvasir Olbracht: but… its all game driven.
[10:34]  Architect Raymaker: we are here
[10:34]  You: yes, I was
[10:34]  Scope Cleaver: There is no content creation in WoW last time I checked though
[10:34]  Scooter Gaudio: I see two people
[10:34]  Architect Raymaker: Kvasir had same prob
[10:34]  Cezary Fish: I have to see that autodesk
IM: Harry Anatine: where are u from
[10:34]  Cezary Fish: anything interesting there?
[10:34]  saraeliza Maine: How can you get there?
[10:35]  Kvasir Olbracht: which raymaker?
[10:35]  You: nothing interesting…
[10:35]  saraeliza Maine: It seems to be blocked?
[10:35]  Keystone Bouchard: if anyone wants access to Autodesk island, i’ll invite you to a group that will get you in
[10:35]  cory Mastroianni is Offline
[10:35]  Belmeloro DiPrima: yes please
[10:35]  saraeliza Maine: Yes, I would love to be invited if possible
[10:35]  Cezary Fish: me
[10:35]  Kvasir Olbracht: autodesk likes to keep eveyrthing secret…
[10:35]  saraeliza Maine: I have met some people who claim we can import CAD pretty soon…
[10:35]  Kvasir Olbracht: so they can quietly come up with their plans to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!
[10:35]  Trevor Steptoe: I’d like to see it.
[10:36]  Keystone Bouchard: the company I work for does a lot of work with Autodesk, helping to shape their SL presence – and they’re being careful about their launch – trying to develop tools for the longer term – not just a big market splash then dissapear
[10:36]  You: bye
[10:36]  Trevor Steptoe: I have heard Lindens make reference to mesh imports, but nothing solid.
[10:36]  Cezary Fish: Taking over the world is not a matter or ANY import 🙂
[10:36]  Kvasir Olbracht: thats a good one trevor…. nothing solid…. musahahaha
[10:37]  Scope Cleaver: *grin*
[10:37]  Trevor Steptoe: Yuk yuk yuk
[10:37]  Kvasir Olbracht: well.. actually… the ability to import models will have a significant impact on the economics of this SL world..
[10:37]  Scope Cleaver: Would it make your task easier if some of the code to import was server side?
[10:37]  Scooter Gaudio: sorry I’m late. Will there be a transcript of this meeting?
[10:37]  Cezary Fish: No impact at all
[10:37]  Kvasir Olbracht: indeed with just the models that this groups has in their RL inventory…. all just to import…
[10:37]  Kvasir Olbracht: touch of a button.
[10:38]  Cezary Fish: Dickheads will still make shit, talented people will make wonders 🙂
[10:38]  Keoki Marama: So is there an estimate of when Autodesk will at least open Autodesk Island to the public ?
[10:38]  Kvasir Olbracht: you wouldnt be able to give a way a building in here.
[10:38]  Cezary Fish: sorry, had to say that
[10:38]  Kvasir Olbracht: Dickheads must be a european term… we call them Fucktards in Canada..
[10:38]  Scope Cleaver: lmao
[10:39]  Cezary Fish: Canada rulez
[10:39]  Cezary Fish: 🙂
[10:39]  Keystone Bouchard: We don’t have an official date – but it won’t be long
[10:39]  Architect Raymaker: the more people build the better the quality ?
[10:39]  Kvasir Olbracht: its like when is autodesk goingto fix the stairs in ADT….?
[10:39]  Kvasir Olbracht: soon… yes… very soon….
[10:39]  Trevor Steptoe: Frankly, and I readily admit that I’m not a neutral third party, but in the next year or two the entire virtual real estate business model is going to collapse at the same time that professional quality art comes in world.
[10:39]  Architect Raymaker: I thhought adt was dead
[10:39]  Kvasir Olbracht: we will just suck a few more upgrades out of you first..
[10:40]  Kvasir Olbracht: probably in europe… canadians are allways the last to know.
[10:40]  Trevor Steptoe: The SL economy is going to be entirely different very soon. What happens when you can go to turbosquid to get SL buildings?
[10:41]  Architect Raymaker: But sl builders have knowedge of how to make the SIMs work
[10:41]  Cezary Fish: I ‘ve heard rumours of SL end so many times……
[10:41]  Cezary Fish: economy in riun
[10:41]  Cezary Fish: avatars hungry…
[10:41]  Architect Raymaker: Scripting and Pol count
[10:41]  Kvasir Olbracht: models are not just buildings… its everything…
[10:41]  Trevor Steptoe: Undoubtedly, but the game community has known how to make low poly and texture environments for years.
[10:42]  Architect Raymaker: Sure !-)
[10:42]  Trevor Steptoe: And when the entire low end of the market just vanishes things will get interesting.
[10:42]  IM: Second Life: User not online – message will be stored and delivered later.
[10:42]  Cezary Fish: Trev, the low end never vanishes….
[10:42]  Kvasir Olbracht: remember that Lindens skim a part of every transaction that happens in one way or another…. based on land payments…..
[10:42]  Cezary Fish: take a walk, have a look 🙂
[10:42]  Keystone Bouchard: i’m not a programmer, but I always wonder why there couldn’t be a different kind of ‘adjacent’ SL – built with a different system, where you can ‘bake’ models into the sim before any avatars enter – just like a video game – so, its not the whole world, but certain designated places
[10:43]  Trevor Steptoe: Cezary: the low end never vanishes, but the market for low end goods inevitably does.
[10:43]  Scope Cleaver: Yea they should rent server CPU to do that Key
[10:43]  Kvasir Olbracht: Open source SL servers….!!! woot!!!
[10:43]  Cezary Fish: never studied that market, hard to say….
[10:43]  Architect Raymaker: But I also assume 3d web is expanding along with broadband etc
[10:43]  Keystone Bouchard: they’ve been importing 3D models into video games for years – why can’t we just have an architecture video game maker?
[10:43]  Kvasir Olbracht: running on all those leftover MAC’s now that vista is out there.
Kvasir Olbracht: well.. technicaly key…. they havnet..
[10:44]  Keoki Marama: No no – the huge change in SL that is iminent is to come from the many businesses that are starting to get interested in selling RL objects here – they link to flat-Web sites and use real US $ not Lindens, so very soon the L$ could be moot
[10:44]  Kvasir Olbracht: most game makers use modeling tools to develop concepts…..
[10:44]  Kvasir Olbracht: then use tools to convert the concepts…
[10:44]  Kvasir Olbracht: ILM has whole suits of applications for that that is not commercialy available.
[10:45]  You have offered friendship to ag Sodwind
[10:46]  ag Sodwind is Online
[10:46]  Trevor Steptoe: Keystone: I would be stunned if ID aren’t working on a SL killer.
[10:46]  Architect Raymaker: Id ?
[10:46]  Keoki Marama: and Google
[10:47]  Kvasir Olbracht: google certainly…
[10:47]  Trevor Steptoe: Lots of game designers and coders are disgusted with SL’s graphics and architecture.
[10:47]  You: Playstation
[10:47]  Scope Cleaver: Google would rather buy than develop from scratch
[10:47]  Trevor Steptoe: Someone is going to take a stab at “fixing” it.
[10:47]  Keystone Bouchard: i’m sure there will be countless new SL-killers coming out this year and next year – virtual worlds are the new black =)
[10:47]  Trevor Steptoe: Sony Home is a precursor.
[10:47]  Keoki Marama: who ALREADY had the tools with its GoogleEarth, SketchUp, links, and the avatars they said they are working on
[10:47]  Scope Cleaver: I heard you can’t create stuff in Home
[10:48]  Kvasir Olbracht: sketchup models on google earth…. that works great..
[10:48]  Trevor Steptoe: Scope: I have just the company for them to buy. 🙂
[10:48]  You: I thik internet browsing will be 3D in VR
[10:48]  Architect Raymaker: I wonder when google is going to arrive
[10:48]  You: think
[10:48]  Kvasir Olbracht: sweet…
[10:48]  saraeliza Maine: I have used it several times (google earth w/sketchup)
Oleronus Balut is Online
[10:48]  Keystone Bouchard: i wonder how many of the new virtual worlds will emphasize scarcity like that – where you have to purchase objects from the developers – no in-world building tools
[10:48]  Belmeloro DiPrima: I think those worlds wil fail
[10:48]  Keystone Bouchard: it wil all come down to how important it really is to the majority of inhabitants to actually build their own content
[10:49]  Belmeloro DiPrima: artificial scarcity is stupid unless its a game
[10:49]  Keystone Bouchard: some people find it to be a relief
[10:49]  Keystone Bouchard: the world will look better – more professional
[10:49]  Keystone Bouchard: everyone criticizes SL for being so daffy
[10:49]  Kvasir Olbracht: the clever person would make a virtualization environment based on some open document standard like openDWG or DWX
[10:49]  Cezary Fish: I dont
[10:49]  Trevor Steptoe: Kvasir: Yes they would, wouldn’t they? *cough* ogoglio.com *cough* (Sorry, Keystone)
[10:49]  Architect Raymaker: I agree with online VR which is why SL so exciting- but being closed may hurt it in long run
[10:49]  Keoki Marama: to the ultimate “normal” user, building content will be totally unimportant – just as most Web users do not create web pages
[10:50]  Keystone Bouchard: what really sold Home’s launch – in my opinion – was the architecture
[10:50]  You: I agree Keoki
[10:50]  Trevor Steptoe: That common space in Sony Home was beautiful?
[10:51]  Trevor Steptoe: Anyone know who they hired to design it?
[10:51]  Keystone Bouchard: so, what happens when the ‘normal’ users all gravitate toward the platforms that don’t allow user-created content? will there b polarization?
[10:51]  Kvasir Olbracht: it will depend on the application…
[10:51]  Scope Cleaver: I would like to see one unified metaverse.
[10:51]  Cezary Fish: There is one hudge problem that will ever exist, a hudge and grawing quality gap between the mainland and islands ..
[10:51]  Keoki Marama: will there be a polarization – of course – until Google buys SL
[10:51]  Kvasir Olbracht: realy most SL users are more concerend with getting good hair than building..
[10:51]  Kvasir Olbracht: the SL experiance is a social one.
[10:51]  Architect Raymaker: I agree withWeb specialists – but now you can by web page kits and free expression and web presence are more popular
Architect Raymaker: Good hair !-)
[10:52]  Kvasir Olbracht: well.. and those flexy dresses.
[10:52]  Kvasir Olbracht: muahahaha
[10:52]  Trevor Steptoe: I guess I’m a builder, because I got no hair.
[10:52]  Keystone Bouchard: moreover, many people don’t want to have avatars here – they want to looks at 3D objects, and ‘be here’ – but they don’t want to be seen – they actually dislike that social aspect –
[10:52]  Kvasir Olbracht: lurkers..
[10:53]  Architect Raymaker: I see 3d as information
[10:53]  Keystone Bouchard: why should we have to log in and enforce this avatar manifestation?
[10:53]  Kvasir Olbracht: its all interface realy.. ideagrams.
[10:53]  Keoki Marama: yes, apparently the sites in-world that sell invisibility and alternate tiny avis are popular
[10:53]  You: serious persons
[10:53]  Kvasir Olbracht: cause…. its fun… it jungian…..
[10:53]  Architect Raymaker: The 3d world helps me navigate that info
[10:53]  Belmeloro DiPrima: yes, 3d as a better way of navigating information
[10:53]  Keystone Bouchard: at that point, when as many avs are invisible lurkers – what happens to architecture?
[10:53]  Architect Raymaker: Of course its fun !-)
[10:54]  Keoki Marama: it is the architecture that they are interested in
[10:54]  Scope Cleaver: Invisible architecture, what a neat idea!
[10:54]  Kvasir Olbracht: invisible buildings…??
[10:54]  Kvasir Olbracht: likethe emporors clothing?
[10:54]  Cezary Fish: My islands are full of invisible avatars, now I got it 🙂
[10:54]  You: it’s camera navigation
[10:54]  Keystone Bouchard: but we’re digressing…
[10:54]  Kvasir Olbracht: its the ultimate reality TV
[10:54]  Kvasir Olbracht: muahaha
[10:54]  Trevor Steptoe: Or multiview architecture, where there is a shared space but each person is presented with different views.
[10:55]  saraeliza Maine: I have never heard of invisible people… what are they scared of? LOL
[10:55]  Keoki Marama: people like exploring – but, at times, do not want to be hassled by others
[10:55]  Belmeloro DiPrima: is this possible?
[10:55]  Kvasir Olbracht: i love being hasled…
[10:55]  Keoki Marama: you do not go to a Web site or a store where people constantly bother you
[10:55]  saraeliza Maine: I can understand that I guess
[10:55]  Keystone Bouchard: so, maybe we don’t need to bring imports from outside into SL – maybe we need to bring avatars into CAD
[10:55]  You: it is possible
[10:55]  Cezary Fish: 🙂
[10:55]  You: go to Legenda Castle
[10:55]  Keystone Bouchard: CAD is lonely
[10:56]  Keoki Marama: absolutely – AVIs into CADD would be the same
[10:56]  Keystone Bouchard: again, back to ‘baking’ the environment – then inviting friends into see it
[10:56]  Keoki Marama: assuming we all could see those shared CADD models
[10:56]  Kvasir Olbracht: would that mean we could have escorts in CAD too?
[10:56]  You: many avatars become transparent
[10:56]  superado Argus is Online
[10:56]  Kvasir Olbracht: hmmmmm i have clients who would like that..
[10:57]  Architect Raymaker: in rl clients like to look around the model
[10:57]  Keoki Marama: well, what Kvasir refers to, is indeed a driving force
[10:57]  Trevor Steptoe: Open Croquet is interesting because it is peer to peer and has the ability to scale up to pretty complex models. What if the back end of OC was patched underneath a CAD app?
[10:57]  Keoki Marama: as is the case with all – ALL – new technologies
[10:57]  Keystone Bouchard: interesting Trevor
[10:57]  Kvasir Olbracht: its true…. war and pornography…. makes the world go round.
[10:57]  Trevor Steptoe: So, you could work on a model and when it gets lonely you just publish it to your LAN and then others can wander in.
[10:57]  Frank Koolhaas is Online
[10:58]  Keystone Bouchard: yeah – brilliant
[10:58]  Trevor Steptoe: Like SubEthaEdit for CAD.
[10:58]  Keoki Marama: could help subsidise my architectural practice ! 🙂
[10:58]  Keoki Marama: though, would my clients like that others, ummm, used it first
[10:59]  Keystone Bouchard: so, to bring this back – are we all in agreement that a true mesh/3D import model directly from a BIM or CAD model into Second Life does not seem possible, given the way SL is coded?
[10:59]  Kvasir Olbracht: now we are thinking outside the box.
[10:59]  Trevor Steptoe: Keoki: Pitch it as user testing. 😉
[10:59]  IM: Frank Koolhaas: Presentazione del libro Second Life di Mario Gerosa/Frank Koolhaas  Domenica 25 marzo, alle 19 ora italiana, in SL, nell’Università di Parioli, Mario Gerosa alias Frank Koolhaas presenterà il suo libro Second Life, pubblicato da Meltemi. Il libro, che sarà disponibile dal 29 marzo, è un saggio sulle culture e le tendenze di Second Life. Tra i soggetti presi in esame, arte, moda, architettura, business, turismo, sesso e legge.  Comprende molte case histories e interviste a molti famosi residenti, come Anshe Chung, Bruno Echegaray, Kaia Ennui, Cheri Horton, Marco Manray, Forseti Svarog, Urizenus Sklar, Tab Scott, Aimee Weber…
[10:59]  Trevor Steptoe: I mean population simulation.
[10:59]  Keoki Marama: no I do not agree at all
[10:59]  Kvasir Olbracht: i dont either.
[10:59]  Kvasir Olbracht: .clearly… its is doable….
[10:59]  cory Mastroianni is Offline
[10:59]  Keystone Bouchard: so, we think it is possible..
[10:59]  Keoki Marama: and I would say – further – I can imagine a way where it could be rather easy
[10:59]  Trevor Steptoe: No, it’s possible. It’s just not a good idea.
[10:59]  Belmeloro DiPrima is Offline
[10:59]  Scooter Gaudio: doable but extremely impractical
[10:59]  Keoki Marama: any CADD companies want to hire a software consultant ?
Architect Raymaker: I would hope it is possible long term- some how
[11:00]  Keystone Bouchard: well…its impractical from an overall SL perspective…
[11:00]  Kvasir Olbracht: there is a conundrum….
[11:00]  Keystone Bouchard: but, for inviting clients in to tour a design concept…
[11:00]  Kvasir Olbracht: virtualization helps clients understand the space we work with..
[11:01]  Kvasir Olbracht: SL makes for a rich social environment… which is supported by build efforts internally.
[11:01]  saraeliza Maine: I would love to be able to have clients be able to visit their virtual homes, and to see how it is decorated.
[11:01]  Architect Raymaker: Its great also for modelling the design
[11:01]  Trevor Steptoe: Because pro tools aren’t on the Linden’s path to $$, they’ll remain on the fringe unless the big ad houses need them, and right now they do just fine hiring cheap prim builders instead of expensive CAD folks.
[11:01]  saraeliza Maine: So many people can not visualize what a space is going to look like
[11:01]  cory Mastroianni is Online
[11:01]  Architect Raymaker: agree
[11:01]  Scooter Gaudio: yes, but as you implied keystone the underlying representations of CAD and SL are so different as to warrant an extremely complex import tool
[11:01]  Kvasir Olbracht: agree
[11:02]  Architect Raymaker: agree 2
[11:02]  Scope Cleaver: I think there is also an argument that could be made about accessibility
[11:02]  StormBear Hitchcock is Online
[11:02]  Kvasir Olbracht: its the same argument about why good architecture is important.
[11:02]  Architect Raymaker: more the merrier ?
[11:03]  Kvasir Olbracht: architectural controls so that people dont harm themselves estheticaly?
[11:03]  Architect Raymaker: lol
[11:04]  Architect Raymaker: i could be areal mess here
[11:04]  Keystone Bouchard: so, i don’t necessarily need to import models for SL-specific projects, but i want to show architectural clients dseign concepts in an immersive virtual environments – will SL ever be able to accomodate that? it sounds like the answer to taht – given the necessary complexity of the import tool – the answer is no – on a practical level
[11:04]  Kvasir Olbracht: its interesting, but i have talked to several folks who would realy love an architecturaly controlled area, that wasnt an angi chung theme park…
[11:04]  Trevor Steptoe: Of course, I often surprised about what Lindens choose to implement, so maybe someone will get a bug up their avatar make it a supported feature.
[11:05]  Architect Raymaker: I like the idea of an Architect Vr area
[11:05]  Keoki Marama: no no – this is not complex at all – OK – I will just GIVE this to you all – if you are familiar with the MOK3 design software, it can take a real life photo, or a conventional 3D CADD model, and turn it into an extremely simple – small photo-based prim “world” all automatically, in seconds
[11:05]  You: If we Rl architects could import dwg models in SL, clients could move into…
[11:05]  Architect Raymaker: Thank you Keoki
[11:05]  You: and evaluate
[11:06]  Scooter Gaudio: well, I assume you also discussed the SL building tools and economics of building (prim counts) as the major problems of building in SL (before I arrived)
[11:06]  Keoki Marama: it does it, by taking a kind of snapshot from inside the rooms and outside, and automatically papping them on tiny prims
[11:07]  Keoki Marama: there is NO reason that EVERY architectural CADD manufacturer could not add such an export tool within the year
[11:07]  Architect Raymaker: I hope so
Architect Raymaker: lets get the spaces out there!
[11:07]  Keystone Bouchard: the mok3 website seems to be down – every link i can find to it goes to a SuperTour travel site
[11:08]  Architect Raymaker: oh dear
[11:08]  Keoki Marama: already, the tools are in place. for instance ArchiCAD and others can make a “panorama” from nodes you place in different locations, at the moment, I could import such 3D CADD models into SL just by splitting up those panoramas
[11:08]  Keystone Bouchard: now i’m booking a flight to Athens – just cuz
[11:08]  Architect Raymaker: !-)
[11:09]  Architect Raymaker: big fan of Archicad
[11:09]  saraeliza Maine: Sounds very interesting!
[11:09]  Kvasir Olbracht: that works great with the holodecks that are starting to come up…
[11:09]  Keoki Marama: MOK3 decided 18 months ago not to sell its software, but instead to use that technology themselves to quickly make virtual worlds
[11:09]  Keoki Marama: that decision does not mean the technology is gone
[11:09]  Trevor Steptoe: Holodecks?
[11:10]  Keystone Bouchard: and shaving devices =)
[11:10]  Keoki Marama: or that it is not easy to replicate
[11:10]  Kvasir Olbracht: yes… essentialyl, they give you a qubic representation that you stand in, rather than have projected.
[11:10]  Kvasir Olbracht: its quite interesting…..
[11:10]  Keystone Bouchard: wow
[11:10]  Trevor Steptoe: I saw an amazing device at ETech two years ago that scans a crime scene and then gens a 3D model with textures to squirt directly into Google Earth. It was amazing.
[11:11]  Trevor Steptoe: I’ll dig up the company.
[11:11]  Keoki Marama: exactly Trevor…. that is what I mean
[11:11]  Scope Cleaver: Wow
[11:11]  Architect Raymaker: this cross over is just start I think- like BiM
[11:12]  Scope Cleaver: Remember that technology we say at TED talk Key?
[11:12]  Keoki Marama: and there again is yet another RL market for SL – re-creating crime scenes
[11:12]  Architect Raymaker: RL info in VR worlds
Scope Cleaver: Photos of the same building aggregated
[11:12]  Kvasir Olbracht: you can redo the crime again and again.
[11:13]  Keystone Bouchard: oh yeah – Scope – i remember
[11:13]  Keoki Marama: an advantage that SL DOES have over conventional CADD is that PHYSICS is already here, so that you can simulate wind, gravety, momentum, and so on
[11:13]  Keystone Bouchard: that was a Microsoft thing – photosynth?
[11:13]  Scope Cleaver: Yes
[11:13]  Trevor Steptoe: I think it was part of J.C.Hertz’s Miliatry E-Tech session, but I don’t see the company.
[11:13]  Architect Raymaker: physics !-)
[11:13]  Trevor Steptoe: (the 3D scan to Google Earth co)
[11:13]  cory Mastroianni is Offline
[11:14]  Scope Cleaver: I remember when I got into SL a bit more than a year ago and therw was a Town Hall with people asking when we’d get Havoc 2
[11:14]  cory Mastroianni is Online
[11:14]  Scooter Gaudio: crudely put: BIM and modelling in SL are diametrically opposed: BIM about tectonic modelling of all aspects of the design/object, SL about visualisation and what we see
[11:14]  Keoki Marama: SL – IS – BIM – it all depends on how you define it, but if clicking on any part of a building, and linking to plans, or building product info, or whatever is part of it, then that is all ALREADY here
[11:15]  Trevor Steptoe: Non-architect question: What is BIM?
[11:15]  Keystone Bouchard: Building Information model
[11:15]  Keoki Marama: BIM is the new name for architec
Architect Raymaker: intelligent models
[11:15]  Trevor Steptoe: Ok, that gives me enough to google. Thanks.
[11:15]  Keystone Bouchard: everything in the CAD file is ‘smart’ and has 3D and physical properties – and ‘knows’ what it is in relationship with everything else
[11:15]  Kvasir Olbracht: oh gag… we have been sold SMART for so many years….
[11:16]  Kvasir Olbracht: CAD being smart… intelligent.
[11:16]  Kvasir Olbracht: ahahahahahah
[11:16]  Scope Cleaver: lol
[11:16]  Keystone Bouchard: smarter than lines in AutoCAD Kvas…
[11:16]  Keoki Marama: it is a euphamism really for Revit and ArchiCAD, because the better term “virtual building” is trademarked by Graphisoft
[11:16]  Scooter Gaudio: BIM is about trying to represent all aspects of the building throughout its life cycle
[11:16]  Kvasir Olbracht: oh.. that was when we arer talking smart lines..
[11:16]  Kvasir Olbracht: remember them?
[11:16]  Kvasir Olbracht: now smart blocks.
[11:16]  Kvasir Olbracht: wichich had entities..
[11:16]  Kvasir Olbracht: smart walls??
[11:16]  Scooter Gaudio: SL modelling is all hollywood, all about surface appearances
[11:16]  Kvasir Olbracht: oh yes..
[11:16]  Keystone Bouchard: all smarter than the last =)
[11:16]  Trevor Steptoe: Did anyone else read the Dwell article by William Gibson: The Sensitive Home? It sounds like real time BIM.
[11:16]  Scope Cleaver: Which end up being pretty dumb nevertheless
[11:17]  Kvasir Olbracht: well if the walls are so smart, why do i have to over ride them to clean up.
[11:17]  Kvasir Olbracht: thats not very smart..
[11:17]  Architect Raymaker: the main thing for me is working whithreal space in 3d
[11:17]  Keystone Bouchard: lol!
[11:17]  Kvasir Olbracht: how come i have doors that operators can put below the floor…
[11:17]  Kvasir Olbracht: smart!!!
[11:17]  Kvasir Olbracht: sometimes i dont think that the industry definition of SMART is the same as the dictionary definition.
Scooter Gaudio: BIM has been around for almost 40 years, it’s just recently the computer technology is allowing something practical to emerge
[11:18]  Cezary Fish is Offline
[11:18]  Kvasir Olbracht: cad intelligence….. ahahahahahah … ROTFL
[11:18]  You have offered friendship to Scooter Gaudio
[11:18]  Scooter Gaudio is Online
[11:18]  Keystone Bouchard: someday…
[11:19]  Keoki Marama: ok what I meant by smart, is that BIM is architectural CADD but with attached information on all the architectural elements – walls, windows, stairs, roofs, and other objects
[11:19]  You have offered friendship to Dido Benigni
[11:19]  Dido Benigni is Online
[11:19]  Architect Raymaker: I see no reason to work in 2d or non BiM 3d
[11:19]  Kvasir Olbracht: thats a bit like calling a book smart..
[11:19]  Kvasir Olbracht: it cant tell if its on a shelf or on the floor..
[11:20]  Scooter Gaudio: the fact is, the information from a bim model can now be used for automatic planning approval in places like Malaysia/Singapore
[11:20]  Architect Raymaker: the smart not really needed for Sl but useful for RL
[11:20]  Keoki Marama: yes – scooter is right – sorry I used the term smart
[11:21]  Keystone Bouchard: well, ‘smart’ has become an industry-standard term
[11:22]  Keystone Bouchard: whether we like it or not
[11:22]  Kvasir Olbracht: muahaha
[11:22]  Scooter Gaudio: certainly smarter than when I started using CAD
[11:22]  Kvasir Olbracht: well kids… i have to get back to doing some more of them realy smart plans then…
Scooter Gaudio: I’m trying to move my students away from 3D models (geometry only) and 2D CAD, which is all they do in order to have something to pin up at reviews
[11:23]  Scope Cleaver: Take it easy Kvasir
[11:23]  Keystone Bouchard: later Kvasir!
[11:23]  Kvasir Olbracht: cause you know….. cad makes it so smart and intelligent that no one has to check anything any more..
[11:23]  Kvasir Olbracht: nice to see you all.
[11:23]  Architect Raymaker: We just have this big gap it seems between what we use daily and SL-
Architect Raymaker: thanks Kvasir
[11:23]  Trevor Steptoe: I’m off. It was good to meet you all. If you’d like to send me an email about your dream toolset for the upcoming ogoglio platform, I’m trevor@transmutable.com. I really hope to make pro-quality 3D tools and environments for the web.
[11:23]  Kvasir Olbracht: scope!! key~~~
[11:23]  ag Sodwind: bye k
Architect Raymaker: Thank you Trevor
[11:24]  Kvasir Olbracht is Offline
[11:24]  Scooter Gaudio: is this session being logged?
[11:24]  Trevor Steptoe is Offline
[11:24]  cory Mastroianni is Offline
[11:24]  You: yes I do
[11:24]  Architect Raymaker: no idea how you do that
[11:24]  You: bye Trevor
[11:24]  Scooter Gaudio: there are devices in SL that will automatically log the chat
[11:25]  Scooter Gaudio: if someone has been here since the beginning you can just copy the history into a text file and edit
[11:25]  Architect Raymaker: ahh Isee – check with keystone
[11:25]  A group member named giovanna Delphin gave you Abiti Legenda.
[11:25]  Cid Ivory is Online
[11:26]  Architect Raymaker: I can can do that anybody want a copy
[11:26]  You: I’ve got the log
[11:26]  Architect Raymaker: Ok
[11:26]  Esmayeeli Delphin: yes pleas
[11:26]  You: I’ll give to all
[11:26]  Esmayeeli Delphin: i miss a bit
[11:26]  ag Sodwind: yes pls
[11:26]  Keystone Bouchard: i’ll post it on the blog too
[11:26]  saraeliza Maine: That would be very helpful
[11:26]  Scooter Gaudio: can it be posted as a notice into whichever groups?
[11:26]  Keystone Bouchard: http://www.archsl.wordpress.com
[11:26]  You: I’ll post in my blog (E.V.A.)
[11:26]  Keystone Bouchard: ok
[11:26]  Cheer Projects is Online
[11:27]  You: Ok
[11:27]  Keystone Bouchard: this was a great discussion
Scope Cleaver: Thank you everyone, getting back to work myself.
[11:27]  Esmayeeli Delphin: very interesting
[11:27]  Esmayeeli Delphin: thank you
[11:27]  Keystone Bouchard: bye!
[11:27]  Scooter Gaudio: ok, bye all
[11:27]  Architect Raymaker: Bye
[11:27]  Dido Benigni: by
[11:28]  ag Sodwind: bye
[11:28]  You: very interesting, thanks to all of you
[11:28]  Scooter Gaudio: much better time than US time
[11:28]  saraeliza Maine: goodbye 🙂
[11:28]  saraeliza Maine: Thank you
[11:28]  Esmayeeli Delphin: 🙂
[11:28]  Architect Raymaker: !-)
[11:28]  You: bye
[11:28]  Esmayeeli Delphin: have a nice day

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[…] 3D Imports: RL Architects Meeting 2007-3-22 10:00 AM session […]

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hi just got a Q is there a import for .gbx models. i stuff up my models and want to repair them

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