2007-08-09 Meeting Transcript – ‘ExtraMedium: Scale and Relativity in Virtual Worlds’

[14:02]  You: so, welcome =)
[14:03]  Dancoyote Antonelli: heyas KB, all
[14:03]  Dancoyote Antonelli: what happedn to your face KB?
[14:03]  Dancoyote Antonelli: you look like C3pio!
[14:03]  You: heheh
[14:03]  You: well – i wonder if avatars should have ‘skin’ –
[14:04]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:04]  You: if so, why?
[14:04]  Dancoyote Antonelli: you know my feelings on that score
[14:04]  KK Jewell: Silverfinger
[14:04]  Dancoyote Antonelli: for me an avatar is a logo
[14:04]  Dancoyote Antonelli: nothing more
[14:04]  You: if i’m out to instigate a new language of virtual architecture – I think i need to start with my av –
[14:04]  You: this is the first phase in the transition
[14:04]  You: skin turns to metal…. metal turns to vapor… or perhaps a squiggle of color
[14:04]  Prad Prathivi: An avatar is simple a visual statement
[14:05]  Prad Prathivi: *simply
[14:05]  Dancoyote Antonelli: it is different for differnt people
[14:05]  You: yeah – I think its a necessary part of a broader transition
[14:05]  Bjorlyn Loon: I wonder if that notion would be as acceptable for women…but perhaps gender is equally irrelevant.
[14:05]  Dancoyote Antonelli: I dont hide behind my avatart
[14:05]  KK Jewell: ha
[14:05]  You: its just the same with architecture – there is a lot of value in architecture here that represents physical reality – we can learn from it
[14:05]  You: but, then there will be a time when we need to move on
[14:05]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes
[14:05]  Scope Cleaver: / Greetings
[14:06]  You: Scope!
[14:06]  Scope Cleaver: Hello everyone
[14:06]  Prad Prathivi: Hey Scope =)
[14:06]  Bjorlyn Loon: hi Scope
[14:06]  KK Jewell: hello Scope
[14:06]  Dancoyote Antonelli: heyas Scope
[14:06]  You: so, lets talk about ExtraMedium
[14:06]  You: scale and relativity
[14:06]  Tab Scott: Like the Boulee shirt Key.
[14:06]  You: thanks =)
[14:06]  You: someday…
[14:06]  You: we’ll build this epitaph here
[14:06]  You: Boulee designed it with Second Life in mind, i’m sure
[14:07]  You: =)
[14:07]  You: impossible to build….until now
[14:07]  Tab Scott: we should
[14:07]  Tab Scott: beautiful concept
[14:07]  KK Jewell: Yhere is a boulez building outside Paris
[14:07]  SC Tracy: hello everyone
[14:07]  You: well – that’s a great place to start with a discussion on scale…
[14:07]  Prad Prathivi: Hey SC
[14:07]  Scope Cleaver: Hello SC Tracy
[14:07]  You: lol
[14:08]  SC Tracy: I’m embarrassed scope, we wore the same thing
[14:08]  Scope Cleaver: It’s easy to guess me SC, I *always* wear the same thing hehe
[14:08]  Prad Prathivi: I think the key issue with scale in SL is to do with the size of an avatar, and also the camera angle being raised above
[14:08]  You: the issue of scale and relativity is always the most apparent to me when looking at a mini model of a design concept
[14:09]  Tab Scott: Prad, yes.
[14:09]  You: if you’re good with your camera, you can move around and exlpore a mini-model of a build, and get EXACTLY the same perception – depending on the model’s detail – as you can in the full size version
[14:09]  Prad Prathivi: Definately – has everyone been to the Greenies Home Rezzable sim? They’ve done a fantastic job of scale distortion there
[14:09]  Scope Cleaver: You know Key I have been thinking alot about that scale problem, and I think the main issue really is about possibility space/precision
[14:10]  You: the fact that the user interface is avatar-based, and our emphasis on how our avatars relate to each other inside a space is what determines the scale/relativity –
[14:10]  Scope Cleaver: For instance you don’t cam around a 60×60 block than a 6×6 block, the speed at which it does isn’t relative with the object size
[14:10]  SC Tracy: I know…I’ve been building furniture reproductions and the scale is very difficult
[14:11]  Scope Cleaver: Camera angles too.
[14:11]  Scooter Gaudio: exactly; without the avatar size we might as well be using any 3D modelling system
[14:11]  PalavraAlada Clary: hi everyone
[14:11]  SC Tracy: hi pala
[14:11]  You: i haven’t been to Greenies – should we take a field trip?
[14:11]  Scope Cleaver: Hello PalavraAlada
[14:11]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hey KB
[14:11]  Scope Cleaver: Yes you should Key definitely
[14:11]  Tab Scott: HI Let the record reflect that I am in charcoal grey NOT black.
[14:11]  Dancoyote Antonelli: we could also go to Hiva
[14:11]  PalavraAlada Clary: 🙂
[14:11]  Dancoyote Antonelli: I have an exhibit there
[14:11]  Scooter Gaudio: Mouselook to me is what determines AV size: the fixed camera
[14:11]  Scope Cleaver: And start in the rat hole! you have to experience it linearly
[14:11]  Esmayeeli Delphin: hello 🙂
[14:11]  Prad Prathivi: Greenie’s is a fantastic example of how powerful Scale is in SL
[14:11]  Dancoyote Antonelli: that is a good study in scale
[14:11]  Prad Prathivi: Definately, Scope!
[14:12]  Dancoyote Antonelli: Greenies is retrogressive
[14:12]  Dancoyote Antonelli: it is remediative
[14:12]  Dancoyote Antonelli: cool
[14:12]  Dancoyote Antonelli: but still mired in RL
[14:12]  You: hey Esmayeeli – welcome =)
[14:12]  Dancoyote Antonelli: Hiva cuts the tether
[14:12]  Delphina Audina: hi @ all
[14:12]  You: hi Delphina
[14:12]  Scooter Gaudio: a one issue build
[14:12]  Bjorlyn Loon: Scope, I noticed that the large avatar size is to some degree a function of the initial avatars Lindens provide… does anyone know why they made them tall and thin?
[14:12]  Esmayeeli Delphin: hello key 🙂
[14:12]  Scope Cleaver: Hello again Esmayeeli
[14:12]  Bjorlyn Loon: is there a history there?
[14:13]  Tab Scott: avatars are adjustable in size many people early on just liked being “big”
[14:13]  Tab Scott: some like being small.
[14:13]  SC Tracy: I understand there is an application that u can put RL measurment into and it will adjust your avatar
[14:13]  Fiona May is Offline
[14:13]  Scope Cleaver: I was assuming it really has to do with proportions and technically “memory space” this is a 32 bit world after all
[14:13]  Bjorlyn Loon: yes Tab, but the orientation avatars, pre adjustment are 1.5 sized
[14:13]  Scooter Gaudio: should there be a ‘standard’ scale to make builds relative to RL sizes?
[14:13]  You: but there’s a limit on the ‘height’ slider in the appearance editor
[14:13]  Tab Scott: all of that is fine, but then they started making 12 high refrigerators for the large avs
[14:13]  SC Tracy: I ahd that exact isse
[14:13]  SC Tracy: issue
[14:13]  Scope Cleaver: For instance to make a hair to scale here would need your avatar to be much bigger.
[14:14]  SC Tracy: sizing a fridge
[14:14]  Bjorlyn Loon: It would be interesting to ask the Lindens…
[14:14]  Scope Cleaver: Hello Eshi
[14:14]  Eshi Otawara: hiya all
[14:14]  Eshi Otawara: hiya scope
[14:14]  Tab Scott: I’ve met with the LIndens on this issue for two years
[14:14]  You: but, it has also to do with the camera’s set FOV
[14:14]  Tab Scott: the first year they said I was the only person is SL concerned about scale
[14:14]  Tab Scott: everyone was a gamer
[14:14]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:14]  Scooter Gaudio: I made my AV RL size for a while but felt very small 😦
[14:14]  Dancoyote Antonelli: forget limitations!
[14:14]  Esmayeeli Delphin: 🙂
[14:15]  Dancoyote Antonelli: cut the tether!
[14:15]  Bjorlyn Loon: question…. are there real life scale home builds in SL that anyone can visit?
[14:15]  Scope Cleaver: I think proportions matter more than scale up till physics will rely on presice scale
[14:15]  Scope Cleaver: Key’s made some I think?
[14:15]  Esmayeeli Delphin: ihave seen many good builder taking a very smal Av to chek if steps work for them too
[14:15]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes
[14:15]  SC Tracy: there’s a version of the farnsworth house that is fairly acurate
[14:15]  Dancoyote Antonelli: retrogressive
[14:15]  Scooter Gaudio: I think they were very careful about size with the Fallingwater build
[14:16]  You: but what about these things we feel small in relation to? refrigerators? houses? maybe those are out-dated concepts in SL?
[14:16]  Dancoyote Antonelli: and poor interface design
[14:16]  Dancoyote Antonelli: VR worlds are just UI
[14:16]  Tab Scott: SL shouldn’t be limited to non-RL architecture in my opinion, both can co-esist.
[14:16]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes
[14:16]  Dancoyote Antonelli: groundside can be retro
[14:16]  You: as a matter of background, in order to replicate RL architecture – and have it feel ‘right’ to your camera view, it has to be at least 1.5x larger
[14:16]  Bjorlyn Loon: true Dan, I agree, but understanding it relative to the real world IS relevant… we have body sense, visual cues that stem from real life
[14:17]  Dancoyote Antonelli: there is no body sense in SL
[14:17]  Tab Scott: then it isn’t to scale Key.
[14:17]  Dancoyote Antonelli: (and the beer is flat)
[14:17]  Eshi Otawara: a wonderful solution to ‘size’ issues is building stuff mod/copy, no transfer, so people can resize it all they want. and big custom builds you build to what the one hwho hires you want.
[14:17]  Eshi Otawara: the end
[14:17]  Eshi Otawara: lol
[14:17]  You: but, that’s the question – what is scale?
[14:17]  You: is the meter really a meter?
[14:17]  Scope Cleaver: Well just the speed at which you can zoom out with your camera makes a differnece to your perception of scale.
[14:17]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:17]  Dancoyote Antonelli: “hires you”
[14:17]  Delphina Audina: *keystone bouchard –you mean rl size to convert to lookthe same is 1,5 (either feet or meters) ?
[14:17]  You: I think the meter is totally arbitrary
[14:17]  Dancoyote Antonelli: lol
[14:17]  You: 1.5x scale – no matter what unit
[14:17]  Dancoyote Antonelli: the meter is an increment
[14:17]  PalavraAlada Clary: scale isproportion, relation betweenthngs
[14:17]  SC Tracy: that’s the proble,
[14:17]  SC Tracy: problem
[14:17]  Delphina Audina: *ok ty Keystone
[14:17]  You: right – so you can assign that increment to whatever you want
[14:17]  Scooter Gaudio: who are you building for? 7m avs or the greenie owners? It’s about your SL client base
[14:18]  You: they just so happen to call it a ‘meter’
[14:18]  SC Tracy: I’m translating exact proportions
[14:18]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes just like in RL 3D
[14:18]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes
[14:18]  SC Tracy: everything is smaller
[14:18]  You: right – its the avatar that we’re designing to – and since the avatar size will always be variable, we’re in a bit of a pickle
[14:18]  Bjorlyn Loon: technical question…. does the camera angle change based on av height?
[14:18]  Scope Cleaver: lol Scooter yes
[14:18]  Tab Scott: right now it is not possible to build certain buildings because the camera ends up on the second floor when you are on the first floor.
[14:18]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:18]  You: you shouldn’t translate exact proportions
[14:18]  Prad Prathivi: Scale is usually proportional to a given object.. in an RL picture, you can tell a scale of a building if it has a person in it. In SL, that could mean anything in terms of scale..
[14:18]  You: in my opinion
[14:18]  Dancoyote Antonelli: the antropocentric avatar is out of date
[14:19]  Scooter Gaudio: I think most AVs are probably the default height, with a minority actually going bigger or using something closer to RL
[14:19]  Scope Cleaver: Keystone has very good experience with that first hand
[14:19]  SC Tracy: it think it was an arbitrary esthetic judgement about the avatar size
[14:19]  You: someone built a phenomenal recreation of the Robie House – absoltuely amazing – but it was built to exact scale to the meter – and I got motion sickness being inside of it- it was so small i couldn’t fit through doorways
[14:19]  Dancoyote Antonelli: that is the point
[14:19]  Dancoyote Antonelli: enclosures in SL
[14:19]  Scope Cleaver: I haven’t seen that one
[14:19]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:20]  Dancoyote Antonelli: cause claustrophobia
[14:20]  SC Tracy: the farnrsworth hose is impossible to navagate through
[14:20]  Dancoyote Antonelli: trigger anxiety
[14:20]  Tab Scott: well to me it seems like the tail is wagging the dog
[14:20]  Dancoyote Antonelli: which is bad for the user
[14:20]  You: yes, it made me physically nautious – not exaggerating – it really made me sick
[14:20]  Scooter Gaudio: one needs to have an alt body just for these ‘RL’ scale builds
[14:20]  You: everyone should be sure their mics are turned off right now – so we don’t hear reverb
[14:20]  Tab Scott: everything is out of scale becaause of the camera and av size?
[14:20]  PalavraAlada Clary: heheh
[14:20]  Eshi Otawara: Tab, please shut off your microphone
[14:20]  Dancoyote Antonelli: there are deep psychological rammifications to enclosures in VR worlds
[14:20]  Eshi Otawara: 🙂
[14:21]  Dancoyote Antonelli: enclosures are poor user interface design
[14:21]  Scope Cleaver: You can CTRL-8 and CTRL-0 to change your camera angle
[14:21]  Scooter Gaudio: just look at a 10m sq slab; it feels much smaller
[14:21]  Prad Prathivi: The fact that the camera is raised above the avatar means ceiling heights have to be altered
[14:21]  Scope Cleaver: CTRL-9 to reset
[14:21]  You: enclosures are useful, if you mean to suggest the idea of ‘enclosure’ for some reason – but that’s about it – we dont need to protect from the elements
[14:21]  Scope Cleaver: Prad: yes true
[14:21]  Bjorlyn Loon: and you cant have a booth in a pub, because you end up looking through the pub wall from outside
[14:21]  Scooter Gaudio: yes, SL buildings with walls & ceilings where they’re unnecessary are a real pain
[14:22]  Scope Cleaver: Well you can protect from a rain of Avatars
[14:22]  Scope Cleaver: 🙂
[14:22]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:22]  You: lol
[14:22]  Eshi Otawara: lol
[14:22]  Dancoyote Antonelli: and privacy is not an issue!
[14:22]  Prad Prathivi: The main aspect of building in SL is navigation.. if you can’t see where you’re going, there no point..
[14:22]  Dancoyote Antonelli: cause there is none
[14:22]  Scope Cleaver: They *are* more obnoxious than water drops!
[14:22]  Prad Prathivi: *there’s
[14:22]  Dancoyote Antonelli: navigation!
[14:22]  Dancoyote Antonelli: divison of space
[14:22]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes
[14:22]  Bjorlyn Loon: also privacy
[14:22]  Bjorlyn Loon: privacy IS important
[14:22]  Dancoyote Antonelli: privacy IS not possible
[14:22]  You: privacy is a mis-nomer in SL – no such thing
[14:22]  Eshi Otawara: walls do not mean privacy at all- you can cam through them
[14:22]  You: if you’re in a public sim, i don’t care where you are, I can see what you’re doing
[14:22]  Scope Cleaver: Yes I don’t know how they can address that technically at LL the privacy issue
[14:22]  Prad Prathivi: Being able to cam makes privacy difficult
[14:23]  Tab Scott: the camera position is left over from the old “first-person shooter” concept.
[14:23]  Eshi Otawara: TAB- please mute your microphone …lol
[14:23]  You: the only way is a private sim – all by yourself
[14:23]  Dancoyote Antonelli: “left over?”
[14:23]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:23]  Shaun Altman is Offline
[14:23]  Dancoyote Antonelli: avatars are “left over” for RL
[14:23]  Prad Prathivi: Or a 150m border all around your property
[14:23]  Tab Scott: perhaps the comaera postion or an alternative camera position would be more appropriate for SL
[14:23]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:23]  Scope Cleaver: lmao Dan
[14:23]  Dancoyote Antonelli: !-)
[14:23]  Bjorlyn Loon: while I agree with that, I believe that there are psychological issues that are relevant here… people enjoy small cozy “space” they are comfort food in a smorgasbord world
[14:23]  You: even a 150m border – you can see around that
[14:23]  You: disable camera constraints
[14:24]  SC Tracy: yes and everything here is monolythic
[14:24]  Scope Cleaver: Weill if there was a straightforward way to do everything in mouselook you would’nt have that problem
[14:24]  Scooter Gaudio: how often do you all use mouselook?
[14:24]  Prad Prathivi: True
[14:24]  Prad Prathivi: Not often enough
[14:24]  You: rarely
[14:24]  Eshi Otawara: i despise mouselook
[14:24]  Dancoyote Antonelli: mouselook is problematic for many input devices
[14:24]  You: i used to use it constantly
[14:24]  SC Tracy: drives me crazy
[14:24]  Scooter Gaudio: I’m using it more; it came in very handy for the RFL
[14:24]  Bjorlyn Loon: people enjoy exploring, on foot as well as by camera, and there is mystery and fun in anticipating what is around the next bend
[14:24]  Dancoyote Antonelli: and THAT is the holdover
[14:24]  Tab Scott: yes mouselook would be ok, but it disables lots of communication
[14:24]  Prad Prathivi: Mouselook has a problem with nausia if you’re not careful.. I found that out the hard way >.<
[14:24]  Scooter Gaudio: but you can’t do anything but walk or fly in mouselook
[14:25]  Bjorlyn Loon: absolutely Scooter!
[14:25]  SC Tracy: I don’t like it
[14:25]  SC Tracy: to RL
[14:25]  Dancoyote Antonelli: to look at small things
[14:25]  Dancoyote Antonelli: you need mouslook
[14:25]  Dancoyote Antonelli: it is a problem
[14:25]  Dancoyote Antonelli: in fine art
[14:25]  Eshi Otawara: you do?
[14:25]  Eshi Otawara: lol
[14:25]  Dancoyote Antonelli: and text
[14:25]  Scope Cleaver: mouselook is closest to how you’d really experienc VR if you had total immersioin
[14:25]  Scooter Gaudio: yes, and that’s where the scale issue comes in
[14:25]  Scope Cleaver: *dreams of a hirez headset*
[14:25]  Prad Prathivi: You get a good sense for the feeling of first person views in mouselook, for sure
[14:26]  Scooter Gaudio: without mouselook the SL environment is not much more than any 3D CAD program (communications aside)
[14:26]  You: but even mouselook – if all you want is mouselook, then just pretend like your camera ‘is’ mouselook – just park your avatar in a corner somewhere – and just use your camera…
[14:26]  SC Tracy: mouselook is too it myopic
[14:26]  Dancoyote Antonelli: it is good to have a variety of ways to enjoy the environs
[14:26]  SC Tracy: yes
[14:26]  Eshi Otawara: i don’t know anyone that uses mouselook but newbies
[14:26]  Scooter Gaudio: there’s much less immersion w/o mouselook
[14:27]  SC Tracy: i agree
[14:27]  Bjorlyn Loon: but then you cannot hear your surroundings, Keystone
[14:27]  Eshi Otawara: the ones who take photos and have not figured out how to do it but screenshoot mouselook
[14:27]  Scooter Gaudio: I’m finding it useful for walking, easier on the eye
[14:27]  SC Tracy: vision is different here
[14:27]  Bjorlyn Loon: or experience builds like yours on DR Dobbs…
[14:27]  Prad Prathivi: Scope’s in Mouselook right now.. 😉
[14:27]  Tab Scott: lol
[14:28]  Bjorlyn Loon: I think there is a body sense, however much an illusion, in SL, otherwise why are we here right now and not just in group chat?
[14:28]  Scope Cleaver: I think I use it fairly often
[14:28]  Scope Cleaver: Yes I am trying to find out how often I use it
[14:28]  Scope Cleaver: Hitting CTRL8 once or twice in mouselook can be nauseating though hehe
[14:28]  Scooter Gaudio: you get a smoother sense of movement when using it; you don’t see jerkiness when walking
[14:28]  Prad Prathivi: It gives a whole new angle on interiors, but I rarely use it otherwise
[14:29]  Delphina Audina: i think with voice it might be used more often -me uses it fairly often for sports activies as y have more rl sound feeling
[14:29]  SC Tracy: does anyone design furniture here?
[14:29]  Prad Prathivi: Yup
[14:29]  Scope Cleaver: I think the reason I don’t use it that often is that everytime you pop out of it using ESC it pops the IM window
[14:29]  Bjorlyn Loon: a little
[14:29]  SC Tracy: reconciling a space and it’s contents
[14:30]  Prad Prathivi: You have a whole new scale issue with furniture in SL
[14:30]  SC Tracy: is it really just eyeballing?
[14:30]  Dancoyote Antonelli gave you Dancoyote “FULL IMMERSION” at NMC – August 13, 2007.
[14:30]  Prad Prathivi: Partially because poses are based on larger than RL avatars
[14:30]  Bjorlyn Loon: 1.5x scope?
[14:30]  SC Tracy: again… I heard of an app that translates RL body measurements
[14:30]  Scope Cleaver: I use a template and sensible heights myself for furniture
[14:30]  Scope Cleaver: tinies IM me once asking if I built any set with them in mind
[14:31]  SC Tracy: I ran into a rather short man
[14:31]  Eshi Otawara: yeah poor tinies
[14:31]  Prad Prathivi: Yup – I’ve seen that tool
[14:31]  SC Tracy: and he told me it was his natural height of 5’6″
[14:31]  SC Tracy: where can I get it?
[14:31]  Scope Cleaver: Bjorlyn: never really check, the scale is easier though with furniture than buildings, as there is no navigation involved really
[14:31]  SC Tracy: the furnigure has to be in a building
[14:31]  Bjorlyn Loon: my av is 5’2″, my bf’s is 5’6″
[14:31]  Scooter Gaudio: you mean the AV height detector? they’re everywhere in SL
[14:31]  SC Tracy: and if your selling it…it has to work with the space
[14:31]  Bjorlyn Loon: our real life heights
[14:31]  Esmayeeli Delphin: when i scale in sl i scale realtiv to RL
[14:32]  SC Tracy: not that,
[14:32]  Esmayeeli Delphin: i want to have the same view like in RL
[14:32]  SC Tracy: it’s another ap
[14:32]  Bjorlyn Loon: I adapt all poses in my furniture to work for multiple sizes
[14:32]  Esmayeeli Delphin: if the other Av are biger i have to rise too
[14:32]  Starscape Judge(height): Prad Prathivi is 2.39m (7ft. 10in.) tall.
[14:32]  Prad Prathivi: 2.39m.. nice.
[14:32]  SC Tracy: I’m reproducing mid century knoll
[14:32]  Starscape Judge(height): Bjorlyn Loon is 1.65m (5ft. 5in.) tall.
[14:32]  SC Tracy: I can’t strary much
[14:32]  Scope Cleaver: Well for instance when I build banisters, I put my AV next to it and make sure I can’t fall off even if I *foce it* that gives me a scale indicator right there but it’s forced by function.
[14:32]  SC Tracy: yes of course
[14:32]  Starscape Judge(height): Eshi Otawara is 2.21m (7ft. 2in.) tall.
[14:33]  Eshi Otawara is BIGGG
[14:33]  Prad Prathivi: Yup – I build everything in aspect to my SL height
[14:33]  Starscape Judge(height): Scooter Gaudio is 2.24m (7ft. 4in.) tall.
[14:33]  Eshi Otawara: 😀
[14:33]  Prad Prathivi: lol
[14:33]  SC Tracy: and I invite all my friends to stand in front of my fridge
[14:33]  SC Tracy: which will be a GE monogram
[14:33]  Esmayeeli Delphin: 🙂
[14:33]  Dancoyote Antonelli: funny you should mention a fridge
[14:33]  Esmayeeli Delphin: ther is the huge kitchen of riverside
[14:33]  Bjorlyn Loon: lol SC, would be a dangerous practice in RL… they would drink all your beer!
[14:33]  SC Tracy: and has a defined RL proprtion
[14:33]  Esmayeeli Delphin: wher scalle is done huge
[14:33]  Dancoyote Antonelli: everyone seems to think architecture is the analogy for UI in SL
[14:34]  Dancoyote Antonelli: I think it is more appliance driven
[14:34]  Dancoyote Antonelli: and the refrigerator interface is a vg UI for SL
[14:34]  Delphina Audina: isn t there currently a “trend” of rebuilding rl cities -eg. munich .bruggge, krakau ? not sure if its in exact messurements
[14:34]  Bjorlyn Loon: it’s not
[14:34]  SC Tracy: I was looking for a while for a golden mean
[14:34]  Eshi Otawara: well, come to think of it- do RL stove and fridge makers build stuff that fits your kitchen- or do you (anyone) buy the fridge that you can fit into your kitchen?
[14:34]  Bjorlyn Loon: at least for Dublin and London
[14:34]  SC Tracy: 1 meter equals 512 pixel square
[14:35]  Dancoyote Antonelli: a refrigerator is a perfect user interface
[14:35]  SC Tracy: or something
[14:35]  Dancoyote Antonelli: for content
[14:35]  Dancoyote Antonelli: which is the point
[14:35]  Dancoyote Antonelli: content
[14:35]  Bjorlyn Loon: I disagree, Dan, I think it is attachment driven
[14:35]  Dancoyote Antonelli: how so?
[14:35]  Fumon Kubo gave you Scale + Move Sensor.
[14:35]  Dancoyote Antonelli: attachment in which way?
[14:35]  Bjorlyn Loon: what you wear, what you hold
[14:35]  SC Tracy: yes
[14:36]  Bjorlyn Loon: the beer in your hand should look right in the refrigerator
[14:36]  Bjorlyn Loon: and in your hand
[14:36]  Dancoyote Antonelli: the yellow thing you see
[14:36]  Dancoyote Antonelli: is an attachment
[14:36]  Bjorlyn Loon: every glass or cup in SL is huge… even beyond the avatar size expansion
[14:36]  SC Tracy: …pretty
[14:36]  Dancoyote Antonelli: we dont need glasses and cups in SL
[14:36]  Bjorlyn Loon: true
[14:36]  Dancoyote Antonelli: waste of prims
[14:36]  Bjorlyn Loon: neither do we need refrigerators
[14:36]  Dancoyote Antonelli: because the food and drink are so bad
[14:37]  Dancoyote Antonelli: the refrigerator is a UI concept
[14:37]  Dancoyote Antonelli: not for food
[14:37]  Scooter Gaudio: well, the yellow attachment doesn’t do much but attract attention
[14:37]  Scope Cleaver: I disagree but for other reasons lol
[14:37]  Dancoyote Antonelli: this is its purpose
[14:37]  Prad Prathivi: But then we don’t need to sit.. because our feet aren’t going to get tired any time soon..
[14:37]  Scope Cleaver: Right
[14:37]  Scope Cleaver: if you go that road there is nothing much you need in SL
[14:37]  Dancoyote Antonelli: but think about uhow a refrigerator
[14:38]  Dancoyote Antonelli: how well it works at serving content
[14:38]  Scooter Gaudio: we do need to stay still sometimes, though, as it’s difficult to control small AV movements
[14:38]  You: so, what do we see as the future of scale in virtual worlds?
[14:38]  Prad Prathivi: We don’t need vehicles as we can teleport.. I won’t even start on toilets..
[14:38]  You: what do we *want* the future to be?
[14:38]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehehe
[14:38]  Bjorlyn Loon: right, and you could argue that Keystone’s blueprints are irrelevant, but not as part of his brand
[14:38]  You: are there specific things we can ask for?
[14:38]  Bjorlyn Loon: and he didnt make them 3 meters long
[14:38]  Scope Cleaver: More precision here Keystone, 256 precision please thanks! 🙂
[14:38]  Dancoyote Antonelli: true Zero Gravity
[14:38]  Dancoyote Antonelli: freefall
[14:38]  Scooter Gaudio: much of what is in SL is about signs and symbols
[14:38]  Dancoyote Antonelli: no grouund or water
[14:38]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yeS!
[14:39]  Scooter Gaudio: like the blueprints
[14:39]  Dancoyote Antonelli: user interface design
[14:39]  Dancoyote Antonelli: blueprins are relevant
[14:39]  Tab Scott: Key, you have designed houses for clients in here, Do you want to continue to distort the scale or would you like to be able to build something to scale…others can distort the scale in an environment that is to scale, if they’d like to.
[14:39]  Dancoyote Antonelli: only when they are plans to build good UI
[14:40]  Scooter Gaudio: what did they do for the coldwell-banker house?
[14:40]  You: 1.75
[14:40]  You: i have to translate anyway – since this is metrics, and my architecture plans are feet and inches
[14:40]  Scooter Gaudio: yeah, well they’re trying to sell it, I guess they want it to look as big as possible!
[14:40]  You: so, converting it to 1.5x isn’t much of a stretch
[14:40]  SC Tracy: no
[14:41]  You: perhaps – more than anything – i’d like an easy and trustwrothy way to grab a build and type ‘scale .5’
[14:41]  You: or ‘scale 1.5’
[14:41]  You: and adjust it as needed
[14:41]  Scooter Gaudio: yes, now if we could just do this in RL
[14:41]  SC Tracy: is there a converter?
[14:41]  You: no matter what the measurement or increment is – we need a universal –
[14:42]  SC Tracy: I’ve been using a meter to inches tool online
[14:42]  Dancoyote Antonelli: we need many building tools in SL
[14:42]  You: so, all real life builds are exactly the same – so they can eventually al fit together – as we start to build entire replicas of cities – we’ll need a standard
[14:42]  SC Tracy: rather crude
[14:42]  Dancoyote Antonelli: it is a very crude application so far
[14:42]  Dancoyote Antonelli: replicas of cities are a waste of your life effort
[14:42]  Tab Scott: some at 1.5, some at 1.75 otheres at random scale?
[14:43]  You: think of it however you want – like it or dislike it – but cities will be rebuilt here – there is value in it
[14:43]  Dancoyote Antonelli: why bother?
[14:43]  Dancoyote Antonelli: lol
[14:43]  You: it augments real life
[14:43]  Scooter Gaudio: gathering places
[14:43]  Bjorlyn Loon: historical tourism, lol
[14:43]  Scope Cleaver: Posterity 🙂
[14:43]  Dancoyote Antonelli: it retrogrades thhis new medium
[14:43]  Prad Prathivi: Much of SL is based on RL, simply because RL is all we know..
[14:43]  You: i’m not supporting or downplaying it – i’m just saying – it will happen – no matter what –
[14:43]  Dancoyote Antonelli: look forward
[14:43]  Dancoyote Antonelli: dare to be visionary
[14:43]  Dancoyote Antonelli: dare to use your noodle
[14:43]  Dancoyote Antonelli: and dream
[14:43]  You: we can build our visionary layer in and around that real life artifact – like vapor flowing through it –
[14:44]  You: the two can co-exist in different dimensions
[14:44]  Dancoyote Antonelli: RL is the vapor in here KB
[14:44]  You: one layer of dreamy virtual visionary, one layer of physical relativity
[14:44]  Dancoyote Antonelli: it is not native to this constuct
[14:44]  Dancoyote Antonelli: but I do get your point
[14:44]  Tab Scott: architecture and hyperformalist art can co-exist.
[14:44]  You: think of the RL cities as logos DC =)
[14:44]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:44]  You: just like your avatar
[14:44]  Scope Cleaver: It has transitory value at the very least
[14:44]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes
[14:45]  You: absolutely
[14:45]  Dancoyote Antonelli: transitory to where!
[14:45]  Tab Scott: architecture is about scale and proportion and deisgn
[14:45]  Bjorlyn Loon: they are empty, but not as empty as the corporate builds
[14:45]  Dancoyote Antonelli: architecture is about user interface design in SL
[14:45]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes
[14:45]  Dancoyote Antonelli: empty boxes
[14:45]  Dancoyote Antonelli: with no content
[14:45]  Scope Cleaver: Dan, it’s like meaning, it evolves
[14:45]  Dancoyote Antonelli: is a tragedy
[14:45]  SC Tracy: architecture is about function…
[14:45]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes
[14:45]  Dancoyote Antonelli: function!
[14:45]  Tab Scott: yes
[14:45]  Dancoyote Antonelli: here here!
[14:45]  You: the part i find sad and unfortunate, is that I believe the really big money spent in virtual worlds in the next generation will be to recreate those cities – because a greater mass of people can relate to it, and more people can ‘see’ that value – it takes a while to be in this environment and really start to understand it as a medium in and of itself
[14:46]  SC Tracy: as it relates to it’s inhabatants
[14:46]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes
[14:46]  Dancoyote Antonelli: remediation is a sad fact
[14:46]  Scope Cleaver: Yes very true Keystone, even though I resist those clients!
[14:46]  Bjorlyn Loon: yes and therefore the psychology and desires of the average user is significant
[14:46]  You: but, those cities will be my playground –
[14:46]  Dancoyote Antonelli: so much wasted money
[14:46]  SC Tracy: you can’t design a city for no inhabatants
[14:46]  You: oh, there will be humans in it –
[14:46]  Dancoyote Antonelli: you are not designing a habitation
[14:46]  Dancoyote Antonelli: that is the point people
[14:46]  Bjorlyn Loon: yes you can SC, its very functional if that was its intention
[14:47]  Tab Scott: a lot of SL is uninhabited
[14:47]  Dancoyote Antonelli: this is not like any habitation you studied in school
[14:47]  Dancoyote Antonelli: the rules of habitation are differnt
[14:47]  You: i agree with that
[14:47]  SC Tracy: there needs to be standares
[14:47]  Dancoyote Antonelli: and so the builds for that set of habitation should be adjusted
[14:47]  SC Tracy: of sorts
[14:47]  You: when we do build those cities – i don’t think we’ll use them the way we use our real life cities –
[14:47]  You: they’ll just be a placeholder for virtual information and interface
[14:47]  Scope Cleaver: it’s about common knowlege and culture too Dan, like you may never have been to Amsterdam in SL, but you can already guess what you can find there.
[14:47]  Dancoyote Antonelli: if that is their function
[14:48]  SC Tracy: now everyone can play with typography
[14:48]  Dancoyote Antonelli: then theiri form is incorrect
[14:48]  SC Tracy: and it’s regreressed
[14:48]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes but not eveyone can do typographhy well
[14:48]  Dancoyote Antonelli: eveyone can build here
[14:48]  Dancoyote Antonelli: but it doesnt make everyone an architect
[14:48]  Bjorlyn Loon: how do you relate that to the natural world, the recreation of grass and trees and wildlife, Dan? I think there is a deep psychological connection to those as well.
[14:48]  Dancoyote Antonelli: !-)
[14:48]  SC Tracy: exactly my point… so the result can be vulgur
[14:49]  Dancoyote Antonelli: I try to look forward
[14:49]  Prad Prathivi: But then, the fact that not everyone is an architect opens new doors of creativity
[14:49]  Dancoyote Antonelli: agreed
[14:49]  SC Tracy: true…
[14:49]  Dancoyote Antonelli: creativity is great
[14:49]  Scope Cleaver: Of course Dan we all are but it’s transitory on the way there.
[14:49]  Dancoyote Antonelli: please call me DC
[14:49]  Dancoyote Antonelli: I am DC in both worlds
[14:49]  Bjorlyn Loon: and perhaps more people will care about form and function and design, if they can experiment with it, even though they are not architects
[14:49]  Scope Cleaver: You can’t expect people to form meaning out of thin air they can’t presumably ground it, in comething familiar *first*
[14:50]  Dancoyote Antonelli: I disagree
[14:50]  Dancoyote Antonelli: people adapt
[14:50]  You: but, I wonder, if there are core underlying patterns in what we think of as ‘nature’ than can be learned and derived – instead of just making something look like ‘tree’ – can we distill what exactly it is about ‘tree’ that makes it ‘tree’?
[14:50]  Dancoyote Antonelli: with the right graphic clues
[14:50]  SC Tracy: adapt…bastardize
[14:50]  SC Tracy: fine line
[14:50]  Dancoyote Antonelli: they can figure it out
[14:50]  Dancoyote Antonelli: bastardize what?
[14:50]  You: or, will we always have to make something look like a picture of a tree to arrive at that psychological resolution?
[14:50]  Prad Prathivi: In SL, people who have no interest in building in RL are more willing to design and create in the metaverse, simply because it’s an opportunity.. it’s not an option in the Real world simply because of so many constraints
[14:50]  Scope Cleaver: Well Keystone very good point, but it has the weight of a philosophical question.
[14:51]  Scope Cleaver: I think there is value in exploring that Keystone
[14:51]  Bjorlyn Loon: yes, but you have to know something about history, and psychology and sociology… and all of us are not psychologists historians and sociologists
[14:51]  You: is anyone wishing we hadn’t strayed so far from the discussion topic?
[14:51]  Prad Prathivi: Lets face it – if we had to pay L$10 to rez a prim, SL would be starved of many things..
[14:51]  Scope Cleaver: In distilling the meaning out of familiar things.
[14:51]  You: should we try to pull this back to scale?
[14:51]  SC Tracy: please
[14:51]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes there is rich soil for theoretical research here
[14:51]  Prad Prathivi: Yup – scale ^^
[14:51]  You: so, we went to cities – becasue we were talking about scale
[14:52]  Scope Cleaver: Do you want to get at the nomena Kant spoke of but in VR?
[14:52]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:52]  You: so, perhaps exacting scale is only meaningful if you’re rebuilding physical reality?
[14:52]  Scope Cleaver: Let’s build the essence of things for the next 10 years here, and forget about scale altogether 😛
[14:52]  You: everything else can be relative
[14:52]  Tab Scott: If a goal was to use SL to improve RL so we could study things in SL before doing them in RL, accurat scale would be important.
[14:52]  Dancoyote Antonelli: right on Scope!
[14:52]  Scope Cleaver: Yes I agree Key
[14:53]  You: true Tab – i agree with that
[14:53]  You: so, we need a base-line scale
[14:53]  You: a standard, universal scale
[14:53]  Dancoyote Antonelli: why?
[14:53]  SC Tracy: yes key
[14:53]  Bjorlyn Loon: I think its a done deal, Key
[14:53]  Prad Prathivi: A scale that can tranverse both worldsa
[14:53]  Tab Scott: if people want to build out of scale they still can
[14:53]  SC Tracy: picasso was well trained in classical art
[14:53]  Tab Scott: it’s not a rule just a capabilty
[14:53]  Bjorlyn Loon: somebody just has to quantify what already exists
[14:53]  You: because real life replication will happen here – and those who choose to do it can have a universal standard
[14:53]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes but he didnt trot out classica art
[14:53]  Dancoyote Antonelli: he looked forward
[14:53]  SC Tracy: to stylize something…you must know it’s conststruction
[14:54]  Dancoyote Antonelli: he DEFINED the conversation
[14:54]  Dancoyote Antonelli: reinvented art
[14:54]  You: who did?
[14:54]  Scope Cleaver: So Tab did LL ever come back to you about scale issues? whats their plans on that?
[14:54]  You: scrolling…
[14:54]  Dancoyote Antonelli: the function of art and archtecutre is different thouth
[14:54]  Bjorlyn Loon: but it still doesnt get around that issue, Key… of the camera problem… even if you go 1.75 the ceilings are still too low
[14:54]  KK Jewell: I am not saying anything just taking notes..Youtart out talking about the visionaries Boulez Ledoux and then you want everything to be in scale with RL..I am not here long but have no prblems with scale I enjoy the different experiences..Wh
[14:54]  Dancoyote Antonelli: so Picasso is not a good example
[14:54]  SC Tracy: no…but it gave him the ability to do better stylizaton
[14:54]  Tab Scott: Picasso was also inspired by tribal Afircan art, he didn’t jsut look in one direction.
[14:55]  Dancoyote Antonelli: so they say
[14:55]  You: but, the camera problem might be solvable by simply giving you a Field of View toggle – just like in 3D studio, or any modelling app
[14:55]  SC Tracy: not the point…moving on
[14:55]  Bjorlyn Loon: thus your question about what we should ask for
[14:55]  Tab Scott: Well, Scope I thing they see it as my “niche, specialty interest” still.
[14:55]  Prad Prathivi: Changing the camera angle to a lower position, rather than above the avatar would mean ceiling heights can come down, for sure
[14:56]  Bjorlyn Loon: but only relevant to rl:sl builds
[14:56]  Scooter Gaudio: remember there’s always mouselook
[14:56]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:56]  Scope Cleaver: Who could answer those concerns at LL on their inworld office hours would you know Key?
[14:56]  Dancoyote Antonelli: LL doesnt care
[14:56]  Bjorlyn Loon: Tab said he had been talking to them
[14:56]  Dancoyote Antonelli: they just want your tier
[14:56]  You: not sure Scope
[14:56]  Scope Cleaver: Well they will answer quetions about whether they have plans for that or not, or their official position.
[14:57]  Dancoyote Antonelli: you are supposed to define the medium here
[14:57]  You: well – the client side is open source – can’t we change this ourselves?
[14:57]  Dancoyote Antonelli: dont look to a higher authroty to do it for you
[14:57]  Dancoyote Antonelli: be bold
[14:57]  You: can’t we change the FOV and the camera function on the client side?
[14:57]  Tab Scott: There was a team of three people working on a new camera alternative postion when it started raining avatars last year and they got pulled off to help with creating more Welcome islands
[14:57]  Dancoyote Antonelli: risk being wrong
[14:57]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:57]  Scooter Gaudio: good idea key, the UI could be tailored for specific uses
[14:58]  You: sure, we could have an Architecture SL UI
[14:58]  Dancoyote Antonelli: absolutely
[14:58]  Scope Cleaver: Ouuuu
[14:58]  Dancoyote Antonelli: and you should
[14:58]  Scooter Gaudio: I want one!
[14:58]  Dancoyote Antonelli: I want a pluugin for Firefox
[14:58]  You: lets see….who has the money to develop something like that?…
[14:58]  Scooter Gaudio: better building tools
[14:58]  Scope Cleaver: *eyes starts shining*
[14:58]  Prad Prathivi: heh.. Now there’s an idea that I’d use
[14:58]  Bjorlyn Loon: I think you could probably also just SET a standard
[14:58]  Scooter Gaudio: academic research grants
[14:58]  Prad Prathivi: The possibilities – integrating all the tools and maths you use into one UI
[14:58]  Dancoyote Antonelli: it is not impossible that this group cound not commission some development
[14:59]  Bjorlyn Loon: get the architecture groups together and just say THIS is IT
[14:59]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[14:59]  Dancoyote Antonelli: dictatorial?
[14:59]  Scope Cleaver: hehe
[14:59]  Dancoyote Antonelli: heheh
[14:59]  Dancoyote Antonelli: I don’t thnk so
[14:59]  Scooter Gaudio: ,
[14:59]  Dancoyote Antonelli: not in SL
[14:59]  You: someone needs to have money..
[14:59]  Bjorlyn Loon: why not? are you any less influential to the consumer than Linden?
[14:59]  Scooter Gaudio: like you said, LL is less committed since they’ve gone open source
[14:59]  You: LL won’t do it on their own, and no independent developer will do it for free
[14:59]  quintus Runo: are there any grants out there?
[15:00]  Bjorlyn Loon: Mac Arthur
[15:00]  Dancoyote Antonelli: we dont need LL for a project like that
[15:00]  You: the whole point of them open sourcing the client is so the community at large can do whatever they want with it
[15:00]  You: they have bigger fish to fry
[15:00]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes!
[15:00]  Dancoyote Antonelli: there are many people who can help
[15:00]  You: if we want it, we have to do it ourselves
[15:00]  Dancoyote Antonelli: it does take SOME money
[15:00]  Dancoyote Antonelli: yes!
[15:00]  Dancoyote Antonelli: DIY
[15:00]  Abbey Zenith is Online
[15:00]  Prad Prathivi: There’s are countless builders in SL.. this is in the interest of the community
[15:00]  Dancoyote Antonelli: but what it takes is clever producing
[15:00]  Bjorlyn Loon: you might look to some historic preservation foundations in real life also
[15:00]  You: maybe we could use the SL Foundations Wiki for this…
[15:01]  You: and we could collectively write a proposal for a research grant
[15:01]  You: wiki-style
[15:01]  Scooter Gaudio: yes
[15:01]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hmmmm, now you are in tricky territory
[15:01]  You: yeah, everyone will have a very different vision
[15:01]  Dancoyote Antonelli: grant proposals are not a good thing to share authorship on
[15:01]  You: we need a committee!!!
[15:01]  You: =)
[15:01]  Dancoyote Antonelli: then need to be razor sharp
[15:01]  You: a small committee
[15:02]  Dancoyote Antonelli: less we design a camel
[15:02]  You: 3 delegates
[15:02]  Dancoyote Antonelli: when we need a horse
[15:02]  Dancoyote Antonelli: !-D
[15:02]  Lys Ware is Online
[15:02]  You: but then again, don’t you think someone is already doing this?
[15:02]  Eshi Otawara: speaking of, i haven’t seen any camels in SL….too bad
[15:02]  Dancoyote Antonelli: hehe
[15:02]  You: i’ve heard that the Sheep have entirely different interfaces already working –
[15:02]  Eshi Otawara: my friend wants a camel for his marocco themed place
[15:02]  Scooter Gaudio: this would have to be one grant, one funding body , small group of Co-I’s
[15:03]  Eshi Otawara: :->
[15:03]  Dancoyote Antonelli: venture collective?
[15:03]  Dancoyote Antonelli: are they still active?
[15:03]  Dancoyote Antonelli:
[15:04]  Scooter Gaudio: web page doesn’t exist
[15:04]  Prad Prathivi: Spot the typo 😉
[15:04]  Dancoyote Antonelli: ok so I need to take off you guys
[15:04]  Dancoyote Antonelli:
[15:04]  Dancoyote Antonelli: sorry
[15:04]  Fiona May is Offline
[15:04]  Dancoyote Antonelli:
[15:04]  Bjorlyn Loon: nice to meet you DC
[15:05]  Scope Cleaver: Hey DC
[15:05]  Prad Prathivi: Tc DC
[15:05]  Dancoyote Antonelli:
[15:05]  You: well – maybe we could, at the very least – define what we want –
[15:05]  Scooter Gaudio: or
[15:05]  You: exactly what we want
[15:05]  Scope Cleaver: I already had an invitation can I count yours as another one?
[15:05]  Dancoyote Antonelli: mediaventure
[15:05]  You: then just start talking it up
[15:05]  You: blog it, talk about it wherever we go –
[15:05]  Scope Cleaver: You are good at blogging Key!
[15:05]  Bjorlyn Loon: the wiki structure would work for that though
[15:05]  Dancoyote Antonelli: ok so I have left a few things here for show and tell
[15:05]  You: i’ll post it – if we knew exactly waht we wanted
[15:05]  Bjorlyn Loon: if not for a formal grant proposal, so do both
[15:06]  Tab Scott: Defining things would be good.
[15:06]  Dancoyote Antonelli: above us is stealth architecture
[15:06]  Dancoyote Antonelli: and it is open source
[15:06]  Dancoyote Antonelli: free to take
[15:06]  You: thanks DC
[15:06]  Dancoyote Antonelli: here in the courtyard is a slideshow
[15:06]  Dancoyote Antonelli: from my show at SL4B
[15:06]  Scooter Gaudio: you’ve lost me, DC
[15:06]  KK Jewell: Make a good proposal and I will send it out
[15:07]  Dancoyote Antonelli: I brought stuff for show and tell today
[15:07]  Dancoyote Antonelli: but I have to jet
[15:07]  You: does anyone here have experinece setting up a public wiki?
[15:07]  quintus Runo: i have done in the past
[15:07]  Dancoyote Antonelli: I Ihave one at that I am not using
[15:07]  You: we could probably use a wiki for the Architecture group – for many reasons in addition to this scale issue
[15:08]  Dancoyote Antonelli: ok Im off!
[15:08]  Scope Cleaver: (Hey Key can you remind me later to give teir to the project, I can’t seem to be on at the same time Theory is)
[15:08]  You: yes, I should mention –
[15:08]  You: we’re looking for help in funding the tier for this Wikitecture parcel
[15:08]  Scope Cleaver: Later DA
[15:08]  You: if anyone is interested – please contact Theory Shaw –
[15:08]  Dancoyote Antonelli: how much do you need Key?
[15:08]  SC Tracy: ok Key
[15:08]  You: we’ll be having our next experiments in comign weeks
[15:09]  Dancoyote Antonelli: I sold a few pieces recently
[15:09]  Dancoyote Antonelli: and can contribute
[15:09]  You: i’m nto sure exactly what is needed – Theory Shaw would know better
[15:09]  You: thanks Dan – he’ll be glad to hear it
[15:09]  You: and, congrats on selling those pieces!
[15:09]  Dancoyote Antonelli: collectors!
[15:09]  Dancoyote Antonelli: ciao everyone
[15:09]  You: i’ll pass this along – thanks Dan!
[15:10]  Delphina Audina: ty everything -byee for now
[15:10]  You: thanks everyone!
[15:10]  You: this has been great
[15:10]  You: i’ll post this transcript on the Arch soon
[15:10]  Bjorlyn Loon: thanks Key, and all
[15:10]  Prad Prathivi: Thank you Keystone =)
[15:10]  You: and, as always –
[15:10]  Bjorlyn Loon: good meeting
[15:10]  Scope Cleaver: Yes thanks for hosting Key, did you get topic ideas for next meetings?
[15:10]  Scooter Gaudio: good stuff
[15:10]  Tab Scott: Thanks Key, this was very Extra Medium
[15:10]  You: everyone is welcome to post content to the blog, and submit ideas for topics for these meetings
[15:11]  Prad Prathivi: yeah – raised some good points
[15:11]  Scooter Gaudio: and a better time for us in Europe
[15:11]  Prad Prathivi: I send you a landmark to that sim, Key
[15:11]  You: its not my blog, this isn’t my group, and these aren’t my islands – they’re ours
[15:11]  Prad Prathivi: *sent
[15:11]  Prad Prathivi gave you Greenies Home , Greenies Home Rezzable (234, 242, 34).
[15:11]  You: thanks Prad =)
[15:11]  You: i’ll definitely check that out
[15:11]  Prad Prathivi: It’s a nice little experimentation in Scale!
[15:12]  Franky Bergbahn: will you give me some infos on the parcels please
[15:12]  You: on renting here?
[15:12]  You: we have a few parcels left –
[15:12]  You: rent is 1.5 lindens per square meter per month
[15:12]  quintus Runo: how much does one o for?
[15:12]  quintus Runo: go for?
[15:12]  You: you determine the size of the parcel
[15:13]  You: we prefer that it be at least 2,000 sqm – but we have smaller parcles available too
[15:13]  You: just let me know when you’re ready to start renting – and i’ll set you up with a parcel
[15:13]  Prad Prathivi: Thanks for hosting Key – I’ve got head off now.. more UK-timezone friendly discussions are great though.. 😉
[15:13]  quintus Runo: hello, everyone i think you guys may be a close-knit group and wanted to introduce myself
[15:14]  You: this definitely worked out best – time-wise
[15:14]  Scope Cleaver: Hello quintus, welcome
[15:14]  Franky Bergbahn: Good seeing you Scope
[15:14]  You: i think we’ll have them at 2pm from now on
[15:14]  SC Tracy: very glad I came
[15:14]  Scope Cleaver: Nice seein gyouy Franky!
[15:14]  You: the only trouble is that its 6am in australia
[15:14]  You: any later than 2pm, and its too late for EU
[15:14]  Tab Scott: Take care everyone.
[15:14]  Scope Cleaver: Which time is best time for all timezone? is there any such thing?
[15:14]  You: so, this seems to be a decent middle ground
[15:15]  Scooter Gaudio: yes, you can’t please everyone, so the only alternative is multiple meetings
[15:15]  You: ok – i’ll be afk for a few minutes – brb
[15:15]  quintus Runo: i am a bit new and was late, sorry
[15:16]  quintus Runo: i was wondering what you guys spoke about (readers digest version)
[15:16]  Scope Cleaver: Hi quintus let me send you an invite
[15:16]  quintus Runo: thanks
[15:16]  Scope Cleaver: You can consult the past notice for the group
[15:16]  Scope Cleaver: As see what this one was about with some background info
[15:16]  Franky Bergbahn: Scope send me a copy as well, I appreciate
[15:17]  quintus Runo: even in second life the first meeting is a little nerve-wrecking 😉
[15:17]  Scope Cleaver: Franky you are in RL Architects in SL group?
[15:17]  SC Tracy: I confess, I’m not
[15:17]  Scope Cleaver: You can consult past notices there
[15:17]  quintus Runo: i got it thanks
[15:17]  Scope Cleaver: You can join it’s free, if you can’t tell me I’ll send you an invite
[15:17]  quintus Runo: im gonna check it out
[15:18]  SC Tracy: I went to a big-ass art school though
[15:18]  Franky Bergbahn: yes I am, but the breif of this meeting if anyone prepares it
[15:18]  Scope Cleaver: Anf Franky if it’s the transcript you want Keystone will be posting it on his blog
[15:18]  quintus Runo: is everyone here an architect/designer?
[15:18]  Scope Cleaver: Yes Keystone will be sanitizing it I guess and post it on his blog

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